PL 11/20/1974 - 31176^�
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CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 20, 1974 PAGE I
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairman Fitzpatrick called the meeting to order at 7:40 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Fitzpatrick,
Members Absent: Non,e
Others Present: Darrel Clark,
APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTE5:
Drigans, Blair., Lindblad, Harris
Community Development Administrato�
NOVEMBER 6, 1974
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Commissioi
approtne their minutes of the November 6, .Z974 meeting as written. Upon
a voice vote, aZl voting aye, the motion car�ied unanimously.
RECEIVE BUILDING STANDARDS-DESIGN CONTFOL SUBCOMMITT�E MINUTES:
NOVEMBER 7, 1974 ' .
Motion by Harris, seconded by Drigans, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the Bui.Zding Standards-Design
Control Subcommittee meeting of November 7, 1974. Upon a voice
vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
RECEIVE BOARD OF APPEALS SUBCOMMITTEE MINUTES: NOVEMBER 13, 1974
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning
Commission receive the minutes of the Board of Appeals Subcommittee
meeting of November 13, 1974. Upon a voice vot�� a11 voting aye,
the motion carried unanimous.Zy.
VISITORS:
Mrs. George Bacon, 1336 Hillcrest Drive N.E., said she just
wanted to take a few minutes of the Planning Commission time because
she had vowed during the last election campaign that she would do
this. She said she strongly believed that campaign signs should
be abolished in Fridley. Her reasons were; they certainly weren't
beautiful, they don't enhance ou� environment, they are very costly,
and she hadn't done any research as to their efficiency. She said
she thought it would be very nice if someone would propose an ordin-
ance to abolish campaign billboards and boulevard signs in Fridley.
She said that in her own neighborhood, there was a lot of juvenile
vandalism of these signs during the last campaign.
Mr. Harris said Whzte Bear Lake had passed such an ordinance.
Someone took them to court on it, and it was declared unconstitutional.
He said he agreed with Mrs: Bacon's reasons for not having them, but
n he was not sure how they could be controlled without denying people
' their constitutional right of free speech and freedom of expression.
Mrs. Bacon said she had heard that Blaine had such an ordinance.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 2
/"`� Chairman Fitzpatrick said he didn't know about Blaine, but he
knew some cities had ordinances banning signs, and he didn't know
if those had been challenged. He continued that he has lived in
Fridley for 18 years and this is the first year he had observed so
much vandalism of campaign signs.
Mrs. Bacon said she just wanted to plant a seed, so the Planning
Commission would at least-consider having such an ordinance. She
thought it would even be worse when there was a national election.
Mr. Harris said we could probably control the length of time
that they are up. Mr. Clark said the sign ordinance says they have
to be xemaved seven days after the election.
Chairman Fitzpatrick thanked Mrs. Bacon for coming and expressing
her views.
1. REQUEST FOR A LOT SPLIT, L.S. #74-16, GORDON Ro PETERSON: Split
off the Northerly 25 feet of Lot 25 and add it to Lot 26, Block
16, Plymouth Addition, to make a 65 foot building site, the same
being 4565 3rd Street N.E.� "
Mr. Gordon Peterson was present.
Mr, Harris said that this had been before the Plats & Subdivi-
� sions-Streets & Utilities Subcommittee the previous evening. He
said that although the lot split would make a 65 foot lot, there is
enough depth to the lot, so that it will exceed our 9,000 square foot
minimum requirement. He said this lot will be 188 feet deep, and
that if at a future date, Mr. Peterson should want to split his
remaining property, there could be two more building sites, one 65
feet and the other 70 feet, where Mr. Peterson`s�house is presently
located. He said the Subcommittee couldn't see a better way to split
this property.
Mr. Clark said the survey shown in the agenda was made in June
of 1960, before University Avenue was widened. He said Mr. Harris
gave the depth of these lots as we had them at the Subcommittee
meetings, but the Highway Department has taken property almost up
to where the alley is shown on the survey, so this property is only
144 feet deep, plus or minus a little. This would still make the
lot about 9,360 feet. We did ask Mr. Peterson to grant a 12 foo�
easement for drainage and utilities where the existing power poles
are located, and these lines go over the existing garage. As this
is an existing structure, we would allow this garage to encroach on
the easement.
Mr. Fitzpatrick asked when the alley was vacated? Mr. Clark
said it was several years ago. When this was vacated there was a
stipulation that a drainage and utility easement be kept, but there
^ are two different legal opinions on whether the City can do that or
no�. Until this is clarified, he thought we should ask for the 12
foot drainage and utility easement being granted along the entire
200 feet of property that Mr. Peterson owns.
Mr. Drigans said he didn't see how they could make a fair
Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 3
assessment of this lot split when
�''1 survey. Mr. Clark said this was
South dimension of the 200 feet,
It just wasn't up to date as far
Highway Department.
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they didn't have an accurate
an accurate survey in the North-
and the location of the buildings.
as to that part taken by the
Mr. Drigans said then why wasn't there an up-to-date survey
of the property we are being asked to split. Mr. Clark said it
was because Mr. Peterson didn't supply us with one, but it wasn't
uncommon for someone to get concept approval before they go to the
expense of a survey. He said he thought there was•enough shown on
the survey so that we could tell the peti�ioner whether the Planning
Commission approves of this concept or not. Mr. Drigans said the
petitioner wasn't asking for concept approval. Mr. Clark said this
property would have to be surveyed before a building permit would
be issued on this lot.
Mr. Clark said he thought the Highway Department had taken
about 42 feet more of Mr. Peterson�'s property. He said the highway
was widened in 1965, and this was probably when they took the addition-
al right of way.
Mr. Clark said there is another existing structure south of
Mr. Peterson's house. Mr. Peterson said this was a double garage
which he built with access to Third Street N.E. The other garage
on.his lot was one he used when he still had access to University
Avenue. After the highway was widened and the freeway fence put
up, he no longer had access to this garage and uses it for storage.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said this old garage was three feet from the
present back property line and three feet from the new sideyard line.
Mr. Clark said this was code.
Mr. Drigans asked Mr. Peterson if he had discussed this with
his neighbors? Mr. Peterson said he hadn't, but thought they had
been notified of this request. Mr. Clark said there was no notifica-
tion of neighbors on a lot split request.
Mr. Fitzpatrick asked how old the houses were that were north
of Mr. Peterson's property. Mr. Peterson said he thought they were
built in 1965 and were about nine years old. Mr. Clark said the
houses across the street were built in about 1955.
Mr. Harris said the Subcommittee thought this was the best use
for this parcel. If the 5 lots had been split in half, it would
have made two very large lots, and by doing it this way, there was
a possibili�y that the remaining property could be split into two
lots, which would make two 65 faot lots, with a 70 foot lot in
between.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said he knew it was the practice on lot splits
not to notify neighbors of the request. He said he didn't have any
Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 4
^ objection to this lot split, but he did,question this policy. He
said he thought the people who had homeson the 80 foot lots might
want to know that there was going to be another home built between
Mr. Peterson's house and theirs. He thought maybe the procedure
should be reviewed, as it seemed we notified the neighbors om things
� of much less consequence.
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Mr. Clark said this property was plattea prior to 1954 and
at that time the minimum lot size requirement was 50 feet. The
second garage was built before we had an ordinance saying the second
accessory building needed a special use permit, al�o.
Mr. Peterson
Mr. Clark said he
�ire or wind, etc.
he had to rebuild
the easement.
asked if he could leave his garage in the easement.
could unless this garage was damaged over 50o by
Mr. Peterson said he was agreeable to this. I£
the garage for some reason, he would move it off
MOTION by Harris, seconded by Bl�ir, that the PZanning Commissian
recommend to Council approval of the request for a Zot split, L.S.
#74-16, by Gordon R. Peterson, to split off the Northerly 25 feet
of Lot 25 and add it to Lot 26, and spZit off the Northerl,y 25 feet
of any existing Lot 6 and add it to Lot 5, Block 16, Plymouth Addition,
to make a 65 foot building site, that is split all the way back to
the freeway fence, the same being 4565 3rd Street N.E., wi�h the
stipulation that before this goes to the City Council,�a new survey
be made of Lots 22 through 26, and any property left o� Lots 5 through
9, B1ock 16, PZymouth Addition, showing the existing conditions on
these Iots, and the dedicati�on of a 12 foot draznage and utiliiy
easement, the existing garage being allowed to encroach on this
easement. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously. .
2. CONTINUED: PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSED PRE-
LIMINARY PLAT, P.Se #74-06, ZANDER'S 1ST ADDITION, BY DAILEY
HOMES, INC.: A replat of Lot 3, Auditor's Subdivision No. 92,
except the North 169 feet of the West 164 feet thereof, located
5outh of 61st Avenue N.E. between Benjamin Street and Mc Kinley
Street N.E.
Public Hearing open.
Mr. Howard Nystrom was present to represent the petitioner.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said the Planning Commission continued
this request with four stipulations. They are (1) Request that
the petitioner have all the surveyors of this property come up with
a solution to the survey discrepancy, (2) That the drainage problems
be worked out to the satisfaction of everyone concerned, (3) Request
a legal opinion from the City Attorney, that if the two surveys are
not in agreement, would the City in approving the final plat, make
that survey binding, and/or can final approval be given to a plat if
there remains a survey discrepancy, and (4) Petitioner to provide
a cross section of how he proposes to terrace the South property line.
Mr. Clark sai� the first stipulation had been resolved. Mr.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 5
,�'1 Dailey's surveyar and Mr. Korin's surveyor rechecked the survey
with electronic equipment, and Mr. Korin's survey is the one they
will use on the plat. They will accept Mr. Korin's irons on the
South property line.
Mr. Korin said he was satisfied with the survey.
Mr. Clark said that on the second stipulation, there has been
a regrading of the plat, and only 1/2 acre of the plat will drain
to Benjamin Street or drain out the easement to 61st Avenue. This
is a plan approved by our Engineering Department. In order for
Mr. Korin to get water in his basement, we would have to get 2.3
inches of rai� with no percalation into the ground and no ou�fall,
or a 23 inch snow melt, with the storm sewer and the drainage easement
plugged at the same time.
Mr. Korin said he would still have water sitting in his back
yard. Nir. Clark said that many yards in Fridley have water sitting
in them under certain conditions. He said that probably the only
way Mr. Korin would be satisfied was if Lot 1 on the pl�t wasn't
built on, and the big pothole be left to'drain the water. The only
other alternative Mr. Korin would have, would be to r�grade his
yard to drain it to the north.
Mr. Korin said that if the Engineering Department said that
n with this plan he wouldn't get water in his basement, then he would
have to take their word for it, and accept this drainage plana He
said he still would only want a 1� foot cut on his property for the
drainage easement to 61st Avenue. He said this should just be a
relief valve and not a complete drainage system.
Mr. Clark said that on the third stipulation, the City Attorney
said that a plat couldn't be approved where there was a survey dis=
crepancy.
Mr. Clark said that on the revised plat dated November 11, 1974,
the south property line of the plat shows a three to one slope with
a retaining wall. Mr. Harris asked what material would be used in
this retaining wall. Mr. Nystrom said it would be railroad ties.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said all four stipulations have been
resolved.
Mr. Korin said he would be watching the storm sewer to see if
it froze up. Mr. Harris asked the petition if when he dedicated the
easement for the storm sewer, if he could deed the storm sewer itself
to the City. Mr. Clark said the City had steam equipment to open the
catch basin if it froze.
Mr. Blair said he thought there should be some �greement to
�..,1 have the City maintain this catch basin. Mr. Harris said if the storm
sewer was dedicated to the City, the City wouldn't have the problem
of maintaining private property. Mr. Nystrom said they would do that.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 6
� Mr. Harris said the Plats & Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities
Subcommittee had made some stipulations for this plat,.which sh�uld:
be checked to see if they have been met also. They were; (1) Survey
problems must be resolved, (2) Provide an easement for the storm sewer
� as shown on the plat, (3) Provide an easement aldng the rear lot line:
for other utilities, (4) Solve the drainage problems with Mr. Korin,
(5) Provide one tree per lot, 2 inches in diameter, (6) Reduce
the street dedication for 6Zst Avenue from 25 feet to 20 feet, so Lot
6 will have the required 80 foot front footage, (7) Provide under-
ground utilities. '
Mr. Harris said that all these stipulation.s had been met or were
shown on the November 11, 1974 preliminary plat, except for
stipulations 2, S and 7.
MOTIDN by B1air, seconded by Harris, that the Planninq Commision
close the Public Hearing on the consideration of � preliminary plat,
P.5. #74-06, Zander's Zst Addition, by Daile� Homes, Inc. Upon a
voice vote, a12 voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
MOTION BY Drigans, seconded by Blair, that the Planni•ng Commissior.
recommend to Council approval of the preliminary p1at, P.S. #74-06,
Zander's Zst Addition, by Dailey Nomes, Inc., dated November 1Z, 1974,
being a replat of Lot 3, Auditor's Subdivision No. 92, except the
North 169 feet of the West 164 feet thereof, located South of 61st
� Avenue between Benjamin Street and Mc Kin1e� Street N.E., with the
following stipulations: .
1. Provide an easement for the storm sewer and dedicate the
storm sewer to the City, recommending that the City maintain
the same. •
2. Provide one tree per Zot, 2 inches in diameter.
3. Provide underground utilities.
4. A swale be provided between Lots 1 and 2.
Mr. Korin said he would want the storm.sewer put in before they
fill in the Ytfl le-on Lot l. Mr. Nystrom said they would do that.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, a11 noting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
3. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PRELIMINARY PLAT, P.S.
#74-07, REAL ESTATE 10 ADDITION, BY FRANCIS J. GIRDLER: � replat
of Lot 5, except that part thereof lying West of the Northeast-
erly right of way of the outer drive of State Trunk Highway #65,
and except that part thereof lying East of a line drawn from a
point in the North line of said Lot 5, distant 1505.96 feet
West from the Northeast corner thereof to a point in the South.
n line of said Lot 5, distant I393.62 feet West from the Southeast
corner thereof, Auditor'� Subdivision No. 25, generally located
on the Northeast quadrant of Intersta�te 694 and Highway #65 N.E.,
the same being 951 Hillwind Road N.E.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 7
Mr. Girdler was present.
MOTION by Drigans, seconded by Harris, that the Planning Comrnis�
sion waive the reading of the Public Hearing notice on the consider-
ation of a preliminary p.Zat, P.S. #74-07, Rea1 Estate 10 Addition,
by Francis J. Girdler. Upon a voice vote, a.I1 voting aye, the motion
carried vnanimously.
Mr. Clark said this parcel of ground was rezoned.a few years
ago, and one of the stipulations of the rezoning was that it be
platted to eliminate the lengthy legal description. What Mr. Girdler
was doing noW will satisfy fhat stipulation. He said the Plats &
Subdivisions-Streets & Utilities Subcommiictee met on this November
19, 1974 and recommended approval of the plat but recognized the
problem of getting the sanitary sewer easement for service to this
plat for the proposed structure. r4r. Girdler doesn't own the property
where he needs this easement, and hasn't been able to get permission
from the owner of the property for this easement.
�ir. Girdler said they had this property rezoned from R-3 to
CR-1 so they could build an office buildj.ng. The neighbor didn't
want this property rezoned, so he wouldn't cooperate with them in
giving this easement. He said they wanted to get this platted in
case they had a buyer for the property, and if they can't get the
easement for the sa�itary sewer themselves, it would allow the City
time to go through the condemnation proceedings for this easement.
Mr. Harris said that the obtaining of the sewer easement was
the only problem the Plats & Subdivisions-St.reets & Utilities Sub-
committee found with this plat. It would be cleaning up a long and
lengthy legal description, so they recommended approval of the plat,
with the stipulation that the problems with the sanitary sewer ease-
ment be resolved. They felt that Mr. Girdler should try to obtain
this easement and the City should become involved in it as'a last
resort, which would be a more expensive way to get the easement.
Mr. Girdler said they haven't offered their neighbor any money
as pet for this easement. He said that if this neighbor granted the
easement, it wouldn't create any problems for the owner of the
property. He said that when they were ready to put up a building,
they have to negotiate then.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said this easement would have to be avail-
able before we can recommend approval of this plat. Mr. Harris said
the plat is unserviceable without the easement.
Mr. Girdler said that this was not a stipulation of the rezoning,
they just said it had to be platted. Mr. Clark said this was one
of the requirements of the platting ordinance.
Mr. Harris said it wouldn't be fair to have you se�l this property
without an easement for sewer service. Mr. Girdler said they bought
it without sewer service.
Mr. Girdler said that if the owner, Mr. Gearman, held out and
would not give them the easement, then it would be up to the City
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 8
^ to get this easement. Mr. Clark said that perhaps a compromise
could be worked out where the Planning Commission could recommend
approval of the plat, subject to the sani�ary sewer easement problem
being resolved. When it goes to Council for final approval, the
plat would not be signed until the ��titioner had obtained the easement,
or the City had gotten it through condemnation. Only the Council can
pass a resolution for condemnation proceedings. Mr. Clark said that
he has told the petitioner that if this has to go through condemnation
proceedings, it will cost at least $1,000 for court costs and legal
fees which will be added on to the cost of the sewere He said that
maybe if Mr. Girdler offered Mr. Gearman money for this easement, he
would still be saving money in the long run, if Mr. Gearman would
agree.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said that he thought it was one of the
purposes of the Planning Commission to solve as many problems as
possible be£ore things were passed on to the Council, and he feels
this is one of the problems they could solve at this level. He said
he didn't see any advantage of passing this to Council unresolved,
because it wouldn't really speed things up in the end.
Mr. Clark said the only difference was that if Mr. Girdler
could not obtain the easement, only the Council can initiate
condemnation proc.eedings.
� Mr. Drigans said he agreed with Mr. Fitzpatrick that this should
be resolved,if possible, by the Planning Commission. He asked if
this sanitary sewer service couldn°t come from Hillwind? Mr. Clark
said that as you go south from this property, the lots are much lower
in elevation, so that to service this lot, the sewer would have to
to 30 to 40 feet deep. It would be much cheaper to service this lot
from the extension�of Polk Street. • �
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Mr. Lindblad said he felt the sanitary sewer problem has been
resolved. It has to be one of two things. Either Mr. Girdler gets
the easement from Mr, Gearman, or the City has to go through condem-
nation proceedings. He couldn't see any advantage in continuing this
for two weeks. Mr. Fitzpatrick said the advantage would be if Mr.
Girdler could come back with an easement.
Mr. Girdler asked why Council allowed this to be rezoned knowing
there was no sewer available. Mr. said the_ replatting was being done
just to simplify the legal d�scription, and he had no objection to
that, but now they were being hung up again by the same Mr. Gearman,
who opposed the rezoning in the first place.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said he didn't know what Mr. Girdler wanted the
City to do. If you think this will be going to condemnation proceed-
ings, in any event, then we could just recommend approval �.f the plat
with the same stipulation that the sanitary sewer easement be resolved.
We feel that another try should be made to get the easement yourself,
because this will be less bothersome to both you and the City, and
would cost less in the long run.
Mr. Girdler said he really didn't care much for either answer.
It was going to be costly to run the sewer from Polk Street, no matter
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PZanning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 9
how it was resolved, and he thought the sewer could come from
Hillwind. Mr. Clark said it could, but this would be even costli.er
because of the depth it would have to be.
Mr. Girdler said they are renting an office building now and
have a lease for three more years, so they wouldn't be building
on this lot for s�me time. Mr. Drigans asked why they were going
through the platting procedure at this time then. Mr. Girdler said
they started over a year ago on this plat, but it had taken a Tong
time. Just the survey cost $1800. In the meantime, it became neces-
sary to rent a building. Mr. Drigans said that if this plat was held
up for awhile now, it wouldn't delay them as long as they still had
three years on their lease.
Mr. Harris said that Mr. Girdler was in real estate and would
know that a property served by a sanitary sewer was worth more
and would make the property much easier to sell, if they should decide
to sell this property.
Mr. Girdler said he wouldn't sell the property unless this
easement problem was resolved. Mr. Harris said that was what the
Planning Commission wanted to have done. Mr. Girdler said that if
they did decide to use the property themselves,it would be about
three years before they could build. He didn't like to have any
more money,in this property at this time. Mr. Harris said he could
see his point, but in good conscience he couldn't vote in favor of
this plat until the easement problem was resolved.. He thought the
best thing to,do would be to table this for awhile, to give Mr.
Girdler a chance to see if he couldn't get Mr. Gearman to change his
mind. The hearing and everything would be over with, at this level.
Mr. Girdler said he wasn't in any hurry and was agreeable to this.
MOTION by Harris, seconded by Lindblad, that the Planning
Commission table the consideration of a pre.Ziminary p1ai, P.S. #74-
07, Real Estate 10 Addition, by Francis Girdler, being a replat. of
Lot 5, except that part thereof Iying West of the Northeasterly right
of way line of the outer drive of State Trunk Highway #65, and except
that part thereof Zying East of a I.ine drawn from a point in the
North line of said Lot 5, distant I505.96 feet West from the North-
east corner thereof to a point in the South Zine of said Lot 5, distant
1393.62 feet West from the Southeast corner thereof, Auditar's Sub-
division No. 25, generally Zocated on the Northeast quadrant of Inter-
state 694 and Highway #65 N.E., the same being 951 Hillwind Road N.E.,
until the petitioner can resolve the sanitary sewer easement with the
adjacent property owner. Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye,.the
motion carried unanimovsly.
4. DISCUSSION
Mr. Drigans said he noted in the Council agenda of November
^ 18, 1974 that there were communications from the League of Women
Voters and the Fridley J.C.'s on the armory proposal. He would like
to request that the Planning Commission get copies of these.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 10
Mr. Drigans said he would also like to request that the
^ Planning Commission receive a copy of the Council agenda so they
would know what was going to go before the Council. Mr. Clark
said he would see that they got these agenda sheets, if they were
ready in time.
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5. ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY COMMISSION DISCUSSION
Mr. Drigans said he had attended the meeting of the Environ-
mEntal Quality Commission on November 19, 1974. He said he was
late for this meeting, but at that time the discussion was on the
structure of the Environmental Quality Commission and the role
they should play inter-relating with the other Boards and Commissioris.
Their feeling was that they were not being used to the best possible
advantage to the City. He said three members of the City Council were
there.
Mr. Drigans continued that there were two organizational charts
with possible ways the EQC could be used. The first chart was that
they continue to report directly to the Council as they are now doing.
The other one was that they become a Sub�ommitee of the Planning
Commission and their Chairman become a�member of the Planning Commis-
sion. There was also discussion as to some �ype of policy ordinance
being developed whereby the Environmental Quality Commission would
be used by the City as a viable commission in the area of environ-
mental concerns.
Mr. Fitzpatrick said the Planning Commission had met with the
Environmental Quality Commission last spring when these two points
were made, but at that time they weren't sure just which way they
wanted to go.
Mr. Drigans said there was a paper submitted at this meeting
stating how the Planning Commission and other Boards were established.
Mr. Fitzpatrick asked if the Environmental guality Commission
had decided which way they wanted to go now. Mr. Langenfeld said
there was no motion made at this meeting. Mr. Langenfeld gave Mr.
Fitzpatrick a copy of this paper. He said the first pages were just
exerpts from the Code and the City Charter on how the other Boards
and Commissions were s�arted. He asked Mr. Fitzpatrick tQ read the
fourth and fifth page of this paper to the Planning Commission because
he thought it would answer a lot of questions.
Chairman Fitzpatrick read as follows:
Re: Seat on the Fridley Plannin� Commission--Pa�e �F--Navember 18, 197!}
Statements and Conclusions and Questions
� The_Plannin5 Commission is made up of both Commission Chairme
� Sub committee Chairman. n and
The Plannin� Commission is not made up of a limited number of chairs.
as are o�her commissions. �
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 11
The Plannins Commission is charged with �he responsibility for'con-
^ tinuous community plannin�. Community plannin� must in this deca'de
of the seventies include as one of its prime concerns the total
environment of the Commu�ity. �
The Chazrman of the Parks and R�crea�ian Commission is appoin�ed by
the Code as a member of the Planning Commission. The Parks and
Recreation Commission is not a s�b-committee of the Planninb Commission.
The Chairman of the Fridley Environrnental Quality Commission (FEQC)
is not appointed by code as a member of the Plannin� Commission. The
FE�C is not a sub-cor.imittee of the Plannin� Commission.
Ts it to be assumed that the FEC�C is of less ir,zportance to the City
of Fridley and are Parlcs and Recreation. �
Is it to be assurned that an Environmental commission has less to offer
than does Part:s and ��creation. �
�Is the 'environmen� of Fridley imporLant enou�h so �ha� it should be
at all times considered as � part of the fu�ure. plannin� of Fridley.
Can the FEQC have a useful znput into the plannina of �he City if
. they only receive in.i orrr:ation Gfter �he fac� and are not allo:•aed to
vote on an issue aL- hand even if i� may vitall;� affect the environ�?en�.
�Sf tlie F'E�C is not to Ue allovaecl a seai, on the Plannin�;� Commission; 'f
_ the r��;�;G � s not to be allotivec� �0 1zelp rr:ake decisions about the futur�:
of I�'ra.dley; and, because L-l:e enviro�rnent encornpasses alI phases of �
��t:,r �� X�'-fe and is beco�;,_�n� more �and morP ? mport�nt as populatio;, � n--
creases, no�se increases, open space.decreases, etc.; perhaps f;hen
all dec:is�_ons �t�d conclusians oi' other corncnzssion� and sub-co;,�rnitteas
should be rout�n�13T routed to thc Environmenta]. �uali�y Commission for
the:ir bl.ndin�; approv�zl and accep�ance and fortivarding to the �ity Counci]..
�I �•aould noi. prefer �o see the abave happen. The Plannin; Commis�ion
3s an e;:cellent con:t�lssion and has done an excellent „ob for the Ci�;;
of ��'ridle;� in its plannin� to daie. Hoti,rever, as Prlc�lcy at�d the world
gro:�r, more and rnore thin,_� have to be talcen in�o eonsicier,aLa.on. A
person i��ho has i:,ade the enviranmen� his special I�no�aled:�e ��ould be of
invaluat�le �iid to the Plannin:� Co;:�rnission in ior�in� and decidin� upan
poll.c�r, Ea LnvironmenLal aua�ity Con:r:�ission ti�:h�.ch can be i�nored or
not u�ed aL all is of little value to anyone.
�
The quest�.on no�•� i.s: Does the City Council ot the CiLy of Frid'!ey
wish the Envi.ronmental �uality Cominission to be a usel'ul and use�cl
advisary body to the City Council, or does i� simply wish to have a
hi�h-soundin� but powerless and i;;nor�c� buncii of citizens sittin�
around in the Community Room on every third Tuesday of the month?
q..�.� _
Mary Martin
Fr3.dley Environmen�al
Quali�y Commission
-�...a,�F?
,:
Planning Commission Meeting -�ovember 20, 1974. Page L�
� Mr. Drigans said that when he was at their meeting, it was
� his feeling that the members themselves were in disagreeme�t as
' to the best level to follow. Mr. Langenfeld said he thought it
was the concensus of the EQC that they have a direct advisory
capacity to the City Council. They would like some policy made
where major items, things that have a drastic effect on the City�
be funneled to the Environmental Quality Commission before the
fact, instead of after the fact.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said the Planning Commission get things
after the fact also. Only the Plats & Subdivisi�ons-Streets and
Utilities Subcommittee makes recommendations to the Planning Commission
All the other Boards and Commissions recommendations go directly to
Council, and the Planning Comm�ssion only receives their miriutes.
Mr. Langenfeld said the EQC would still like the Chairman
af the Environmcntal Quality Commission to be a member of the.
Planning Commission,�but they would report directly to Counc.il.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said it was his op�:nion that the Planning
Commission would benefit from input from the EQC, and that might
best be served by having the Chairman of.the Environmental Qualii:y
Commission sitting on the Planning Commission. Mr. Fitzpatrick said
we often send things down to a subcommittee, and the Chairman of the
EQC could make tha-t recommendation also, if he was a member of the
Planning Commission.
Mr. Drigans said it seemed to be a consensus of opinion from
�gme. of the members af the Environmental Quality Commission that
every time a shovel wa� taken to the ground in Fridley, they want to
prepare an environmental impact statement.
Chairman Fitzpa�rick said that he thinks what they are aslsing
for is that certain things be routiriely routed to this Commission.
Mr• Drigans said the various Boards and Commissions are drawn
from different parts of the Code and the City Charter. He said that
when the Planning Commission was reviewing the Code, he thought a
new ordinance should be made, to encompass all the boards and commis-
sions and their structure and duties and responsibiliti:es, into one
ordinance.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said that Mr. Dr.igans �aas talking about an
area that would need the City Attorney to put this ordinance into the
correct legal language.
Mr. Lindblad asked how you would define the things that should
be referred to the Environmental Quality„�ommission. Mr. Drigans said
this is a pretty gray area, when it.comes to noise pollution and
other things that have to due with environment. Mr. Langenfeld said
that if he was a member of the Planning Commission h� could flag down
those things that he thought needed input from the EQC.
�;
Chairman Fi.tzpatrick said you would be aware of some things
�
Planninq Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 13
� before they happened as a member of
it wouldn't insure that you would be
don't come through this Commission.
Chairman of the EQC became a member
should be a more exp�nded definition
will play in the Gity.
i�
�,
the Planning Commission but
aware of a lot of things that
He thought that before the
of the Planning Commission there
of just what place the EQC
Mr. Drigans said he had mentioned at the meeting on November
19th that the City should have some �ype of Environmental Policy
Act, such as �he State has, and that until that time, the Council
should pass a res�lution placing the Chairman of the :Environmental
Quality Commission on the Planning Commission either as a full
member or an ex-officio membere
Mr. Blair asked Mr. Langenfeld i� he had seen any�hing in
the Planning Commission agenda where he would have liked to have
input from the EQC. Mr. Langenfeld said he couldn't think of which
items they were, but he knew there had been some items. The armory
was one thing. Mr. Blair asked why the �nv��o�zttental �uality Commssion
would be involved in the armory request. Mr. Langenfeld said they
would be destroying many natural things at the site where this
armory was proposed, and other things enter into it also. Mr. Blair
asked if the Environmental Quality Commission would want to know�
about any large buildings that were proposed in Fridley? He said
the City issued a lot of building permits. Mr. Langenfeld said they
wouldn't ex�ect to see all these. Mr. Blair said the Environmental
Quality Commission had picked a controversial issue in the armorye
He said that if someone came in and wanted a permit for a nine acre
building, this would not come through. the Planni�g Commission.
Would the EQC want something like this referred to them? Mr. Langen-
feld said they would, so they could determine what this would do
to the all-over environment. •
Mr. Harris said that at the meeting last night, and again
tonight, something keeps co�ing through, and although no one came
right out and said it, he go� the feeling that what they were talking
about was veto. He said he felt that some of the people on the EQC
want the final say on everything that is done in this town. Mr.
Langenfeld said that as Chairman of the Environmental Quality Commis-
sion, he firmly believed that environment and progress should go
together.
Mr. Drigans said the feeling he got from the meeting was that
the Environmental Quality Commission wanted to look at the negative
@ffect things would have on the environment. He had never heard the
EQC talk about positive programs. He said the Planning Commission
has long discussed a tree nursery. He said he felt that for every
tree that had to be cut down in the City, that was a negative effect,
there should be a tree planted, which would be a positive effect. He
said we are not only talking about land, we've got sqme apartment
buildings that really look dilapidated. That's environment too.
He said that the meetings he has attended of the EQC, all he has heard
was that some developer was leveling land, and now the armory. He
hasn't heard any proposals that wauld counteract the effects of some
of these things on the envionment. He said we have billbo�rds in
Fridley that don't meet the code. The Envionmental Quality Commission
�
Planning Commission Meeting - November 20, 1974 Page 14
� should be looking at these and giving an
to the Board of Appeals who will have to
the Planning Commission, who will have to
Special Use Permits on these billboards.
��
�
environmental impact statement
act on the variances, and
hear the requests for
Mr. Langenfeld asked how the Planning Commission would vote
at the present time on having the Chairman of the E�C as a member
of the Planning Commission.
Chairman Fitzpatrick said he would vote in favor, but he would
like to see the duties and responsibilities of the Environmental
Quality Commission defined first.
Mr. Drigans said he would like to have an ordinance set up
stating what would be routinely referred to this Commission, and
until that time he would welcome Mr. Langenfeld as an ex-officio
member.
Mr. Harris said he would vote yes, with the priviso tha•t the
final approval of decision on what would happen in Fridley be up
to the City Council, who are eiected off icials, and not with the
Environmental Quality Commission, who can only be an advisory group,
the same as the Planning Commission and the other Boards, who were
all appointed by the Council.
Mr. Lindblad and Mr. Slair said they would vote yes.
Mr. Langenfeld said he had told the EQC that they would
be dealing with citizens, and their recommendations would have
to be such as to not force anyone out of business.
ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Blair, seconded by Lindb.Zad, that the PZanning
Commission adjourn their meeting.
Ch.airman Fitzpatrick adjorned the mee��.ng at 10:35 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
C � ��
. G
Dorothy E enson, Secretary
�- °
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