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PL 12/22/1976 - 6600� t� � PLANNTNG COMMISSION MEETING CITY OF FRTDLEY A G E N D A DECEMBER 22, 1976 CALL TO ORAER: ROLL CALL: APPROVE PLANNING COFA�IISSION MINUTES: DECEMBER 8, 1976 1. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMTT, SP #76-18, NAEGELE OUTDOOR 1�DVE�7ISIN�COMPANY: To allow the construction of a 10 x 2 il oard, per Fridley City Code, Section 214.042, to be 3ocated on Lot 5, Revised auditor's Subdivision k77, the same being 151 Osborne Road N.E, 2. GQNTINUED: PROPOSED MAINTENANCE CODE: Continue until January 5, 197J 3. CONTINUED: HUMAN DEVELOPMENT GOALS AND OSJECTIYES Continue until January 5, 1977 7:30 P.M. PA6ES 1 - 20 21 - 26 4_ RECEIVE HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES: DECEMBER 2, 27 ' 35 1976 5. 6. RECEIVE COMMUNITY ADJOURNMENT: DECEMBER At Meeting At Meeting \ � � CITY OF FRIDLEY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - DECF2IBER 8, 1976 PAGE 1 CALL TO ORDEit: Chairperson Harris called the meeting to order at 7:3z P.M. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Harris� Bergman� Langenfeld, Schnabel, Shea Members Absent: Others Present; Peterson Jerrold Boardrnan, City Planner APPR08E PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: NOVEMBER 17, 1976 MOTIGN by Langenfeld, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission minutes o£ 13ovember 17, 1976 be approved as uritten. Mrs. Schnabel noted that she had been listed as present, when actually Mrs. Gabel had attended that meeting. � UPOH A VQICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 1. CONTINUED: PUBLIC HEARING: REZONING REQUFST, ZOA �76-06, BY GEOR4E- genera us�.ness areas), that part of Lot 2'� A.S. #78� lying Westerly of the Westerly right-of-w�y line of Main Street N,E„ lying Easterly o£ the Easterly railway right-of-way line of Burlington Northern, Inc.� lying Northerly of the Northerly right-of-way line of Interstate High- uray J/691t, and lying Southerly of a line drawn Westerly at a right angle to the East line of said Lot 2, from a point on said East line distant 507.60 feet Southerly from the Northeast corner o£ said Lot 2, except the Wester7,y 218.16 oT the described property� subject to easement to Northern States Power Company, the same being 5600 Main Street N.E. Public Hearing open. Mr. Robert H. Brokopp and Mr. Dave A. Oleson were present representing Bur2ington Northern, Inc.; Mr. Ken C. Nielson was present representing Burlington Northern Land Development Corp.; and Mr. Carl George was present represent3ng Georgetown Motel, Inc. Planning Coinmission Meeting - December 8� 1976 page 2 Mr. Boardman informed the Cotmnission that this was x continuation from the � last meeting, and they did have representatives present from Bur2ington Northern and B� L at this meeti.ng to answer any questions they might have. Mr. Robert Brokopp of Burlington Northern stated that the Burlington Northern Land Development Corporation had been formed two years ago to try to develop property compatible with Bur2ington Northern. Ae saic3 they had properties in some locations that weren�t specifically industrial, and they felt that they shou2d possibly develop those as commercial.. He explained Lhere were three railroads combined Khich had large land owning interests in various parts ot the country, arid there had to be some tie to get all of these properties managed correctly. Mr. Brokopp stated they a2so had a third divi.sioa, Resources, which controlled the timber, oil lands, etc.; so they actually had three real estate departments--property management, Resources, and Burl3ngton Northern Land Development Corporation. Mr. Brokopp said that in trying to do the best they could.t.'ith their property the situation arose along Main Street and 69�t. He explained they had created the Northtown Yard, and it was thought that perhaps they should consider putting a motel-type arrangement in to handle the crews from Northtown. Mr. Brokopp stated that it never really got to the point where they could consider that as a project, but when they were in contact with Mr. George with regard to the crew handling facility he saw there would be a nee9 for a facility in the vicinity of East River Road and 69ly. He said the piece of property that seemed to be most advantageous was the site that Nas in question--north of 691t and west of Main Street. He explained it was � zoned M-2, heavy industrial, and they alw�ys intended to develop it that way. He said they had the property 5ince 1965, and the reason it hadn't been developed was they were not sure what the plans were for the Northtown Yard, He e�cplained it was for that reason they hadn't been able to develop the property industrial� but they still plantted to. Mr. Brokopp stated that they had the Land Development Corporation to deveZop the property because they didn�t lmow how it would work out; they wanted the highest and best use for the property. He explained that with the George- town Motel they could see where they could give up a little corner of the property which wouldn't lend itsel£ as well to industrial as to the motel operation, He added that they didn't feel the motel operation would be i:ncompatible with the adjacent industrial they have planned £or the rest o£ the property, and urged that the zoning be changed in this unique situation to accommodate the Georgetown Motel operation. Mrs. Schnabel asked if the property had always been zoned M-Z� and Mr. Brokopp replied that ihey had owned the property since I965 and it had been zoned M-2 then. Mrs. Schnabel asked if he could foresee in the fhture any chance the railroad company itself would use that property for any other operation or if they were looking for other companies to use that property instead. Mr, Brokopp replied they had used it in connection xith their operation and were trying to make final p2ans for the property, which was rather diSficult to do. He sai.d they primarily would be interested in � getting other industry on the property. Mrs. Schnabel asked if then there were no major plans for that property by the railroad� and Mr. Hrokopp said Planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 . Page 3 no� not at the present. He explained this was in thethroes of planning �and they were only five years old as a combined company, and it wasn�t that easy to formulate plans. Mr. Langenfeld said that their main concern at the last meeting xas the future development of the properties North of the Georgetown project� and the Commission was hoping the railroad might have some indication as to what they intended to do with the remaining portion and if they had any plans for the portion immediately adjacent to the Georgetown Motel project. 'Mr. Brokopp replied they had no immediate plans, but he would envision some- thing similar to what xas developed along East River Road and 694 in the Southeast corner, Mr. David Oleson� also representing Burlington Northern� Inc., stated they had brochures showing pictures of their property and giving information on it, Se said they were sent to respond to inquiries promoting the property for industrial use, and passed out copies to the Commission. He explained they promoted it for industrial use and it was their intention to continue to do that. .Mr. Oleson explained that the Georgetoxn plan was brought to them by the Land Development Corporation� and Burlington Northern was basically acquiescent to that request by saying that this area would not deter from their efforts to locate industry--at least to the best o£ their judgement at this time. Mr« Hergman asked if it was the railroad�s intention that the land £rom the proposed Georgetown parcel all the xay to 61st Street presently zoned �M-2 be developed as M-2, and Mr. Oleson said that was correct. Mr. Bergman said he was a bit concerned about the piece between the proposed George- twon parcel and the tracks, and commented that the Commission had been a little surprised that the rezoning request did not expand westerly to the trackage. Air. Oleson replied that one`of the reasons might be that there was always a need to preserve some area for trackage for new industrial facilities� so certain clearance areas had to be maintained. Mr. Brokopp stated that another reason might be that for years the Highway Department had been unhappy with the underpass on 6911 under their tracks. He explained that underpass had been built to accommodate Highw�y 100 and was not built to f�eeway standards. Mr. Brokopp sai.d the Highway Department had come to them and said they would like to rehuild that bridge to highway stattdards, and the railraod felt.that they shouZd provide a wide enough bridge to put additional tracks across there. He explained the reason was the trains were increasingly longer with more cars on them, and in order to bring the trains in it may be necessary to put additional tracks along the East side of their present tracks� and that would require additional right-of-way. He £urther explai.ned that the 218.16 feet of the parcel oP land was predicated for additional right-of-way if the bridge on 694 got changed and a larger one was bu31t. He commented that he had no idea where that stood with the state. Mrs. Shea asked if it hadn't been discussed at the last meeting that perhaps Georgetoxn might like to pick up that property later. Mr. Brokopp replied that the original plan £or Georgetown was to have an exception of 100�� but their operating department didn't think that would be suf£icient to allow the Plenning Commission Meeting - December $� 1976 Page � motel operation to expand. He stated they then discovered that property would � be needed for trackage, so he thought the width got expanded North and South in order to arrange for this. Mr. Carl George stated he hadn�t known that property would be used for additional trackage for Burlington Northern, so he thought if it was criter3a for the rezoning he would offer to pick it up. Mrs. Shea asked if the Georgetorm Motel couldn�t go.back� if they would ask for more property on the side to expand. Mr. George replied that they felt within a two-year period there uould be a need to expand� so then they would have to go to the side or to another location. Mr. Brokopp added that•it depended on the State Highway Department and whai they would do, and their plans for the longer trains� etc. He explained they were taking this as they went so it wasn�t easy to answer questions like that. Chairperson Harris asked iP the remainder of the land behind the proposed Georgetown Motel development would be similar to the type of operation described in the brochure Mr. Oleson had passed out. Mr. Oleson replied hopefully, yes� but it was dif£icult to see what type of proposals would coma to them. Mr, Harris said that he was a bit confused at this point as they had seen a brochure at the last Public Hearing put out by B N L that described the use for the remaining property as something else. Mr. SroYopp agreed that would get confusing, and explained that his company forired the other company to handle the many, many properties they had that couldn't be categorized as either industrial or operative. He said that � while it may seem strange to the Commission that they were both advertising for this property, it wes really for the good of the company. Chairperson Harris stated he understood that, but Bur].ington Northern was advertising it for one thing and B N L was advertising it for something else. He said h3s question was, "what are you trying to sell it for?" He read to the Commission the site data brochure by B N L Development Corporation which stated the property could be used for office buildings, multi-family, warehousing� industrial potential, etc. Mr. Harris said they had two different stories from B td L and Burlington Northern. Mr, Brokopp stated that the primary concern was £or establishing industry along their lines of growth. He stated that the Land Development Corporation was formed to handle some of the lands that weren't perhaps compatible for either industrial or for operative. M,. Brakopp explained that they did get into a cross over on this particu3ar property because there were some areas like this Georgetown site that could be used better £or the motel operation than for the industrial operation. He said they had finally deter- mined that the Georgetown site was better for a motel and they were willing to go that route� and the rest they felt should be developed industrial. He added that they Felt that anything along rails should not go any other w�y unless some circumstances dictated otherwise. He said, however, they did have to think of what was economically best and if it was £ound that perhaps an apartment complex would be financially beneficial� they would be back before the City asking for.that. However� he said� at the moment their primary Planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 5 � concern was for industrial development of that property. Chairperson Harris said they understood that� but the railroad should under- stand the City's position. He stated if the City was to operate under those circumstances just described, they would get into a mishmash of zoning that �ou2d borderline spot rezoning. He said that from his standpoint he agreed kith the Georgetown concept along the highway and the industrial back, but a strip of commercial, a strip of multi-faznily, a strip of industrial and then another strip of commercial xas not good planning. He said he saw nothing but headaches as far as traffic patterns, utilities, and getting along with the adjoining residents. Mr. Boardman pointed out it was the City's prerogative to turn down any future requests for rezoning if it did not follow what they felt was a normal process. Chairperson Harris said that was correct, but he i'elt these things should be stated at the onset of the development. Mr. Brokopp stated this was a desirable property for industrial development� and the only reason they hadn�t developed kiain Street property zras because they xere waiting to see how the Northtown yard turned out. He said they had discussed how a motel would be compatible vi.th industrial property, and had noted that the property itself wasn't too visable from the interstate. He explained that Holiday Uillage shielded mosi of it, and people were too intent on driving through the underpass to pay much attention to it. He stated that if the motel was located there and people had the chance to �swing into the motel, there would be a lot of people that would be influential in the industrial development of the area. He added that once they got into the area there could be more development, and one development could lend itself to another development. Mr. Brokopp added that they looked at it in the vein that the motel would add to the development of the industrial property, and if industries did get in there the salesmen would possibly be having their meetings at the motel, etc. He said that normally they wouldn�t ask for rezoning away from i.ndustrial� but they were trying to be as honest and forthright as possible. Mr. Ken Nielson of Burlington Northern Land Development Corporation stated that what the Commission had heard so far was the Burlington Northern�s viewpoint of what the property was to be used for. He stated the vote was not in on what the remainder of the property would be utilized for. Mr. Nielson said that surely the Commission could understand that Burlington Northern's Industrial Development wanted to protect everything along the rails� and he thought that was understandable from the standpois�t it was getting harder and harder to locate good property withi.n a respectable proximity o£ the metropolitan area on which to locate industry. He stated that he thought their industrial developanent in Fridley so Far had been of good quality; but from a corporate standpoint, looking at a7.1 the facets of the problem, they felt it also had potential for use as commercial, of£ice� warehousing, multi-family, etc. He atated that based on their ability to come forth with a proposal and submit it to the Board of Directors� this property could be available to B N, L Deve1- opme�t for other uses besides industrial, Planning Co�mnission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 6 Mr. Nielson.stated that he didn�t think that any of the representatives present � xould suggest that they intermingle land uses along Main Street such as having commercial, industrial and sticking in a few multi-family units. He said they thought it was an area that was sensitive and had a number of uses. He stated that on their property between 61st and 69)y they had multi-family, singZe-family an@ commercial all within that area; and he thought the key ingredient was how these land uses interfaced, Mr, Nielson stated he didn't think that what they were proposing as far as the raotel was spot zoning, and B N L looked at this as the first step in obtaining the highest and best use of the property. He explained that B N. L was in competition fri.th Burlington Northern's Industrial Development Department in finding a use for the property and finding a developer. Chairperson Harris asked if Mr. Nielson felt that all of the potential uses he had listed in the brochure were compatible zoning for the area, and Mr. Nielson replied there was no firm development for the land. He stated the data sheets were just trying to generate interest, and tktey didn�t like to come in and go with a piecemeal development step by step, Mr. Nielson said that the problem was here the Industrial Development Department didn't like to part with industrial land in locations such as this because it was of prime concern to them, and they were reluciant to give B N L more than they needed in an initial first step. He stated they would be making a cohesive effort to have a logical and harmonious usage along Main Street. Mr. Langenfeld said that as far as a business standpoint was concerned and in reference to the two brochures (one light industrial and one general � business type zoning), he got the impression that whichever one sold would be the one to go, and then they wou]d be back before the Planning Commission aski.ng for the necessary zoning at that time. Mr, Brokopp said it Has already zoned for industrial development, so they wouldn�t have to come back before the Planning Commission if it went industrial. Ae said it would be just in the event they weren't able to locate industry there and B t? L was able to locate some commercial development. Mr. Boardman asked if proposals by B N L had to be reviewed by Burlington Northern before they would lease that property, and Mr. Brokopp replied yes, Burlington Northern wou2d have the first direotive as to what the property would be used for. Chairperson Harris asked i£ they were selling any portion of this particular tract. Mr. $rokopp replied they didn't like to sellit, they preferred to lease, but the way £inancing was these days ihey had to sell. He explained it was difficult for them to get a£inancer for a term lease. Mr, Harris asked how the road situation and utilities would be handled in the event they did not sell� but leased the rest of the property. Mr. Brokopp said that was vhat they were trying to come up with now� but it was diYficult to plan because they were not sure about the bridge over 6q1y and all the other things involved. He stated they had been trying to get the plat completed that was agreed upon at the time of the Northtown yard initial construction. He added they had'been trying to get the thing platted� but the City asked questions about � what they were going to do with the property behind what they wanted to plat and the railraod couldn�t answer that yet. �..: � Planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 � Page 7 �Chairperson Harris asked hox the utilities and the internal roadway system for the mot¢1 would be handled if the City looked favorably on the rezoning for Georgetown. Mr. George answered that they had two entries off of Main Street. He sai.d they knew where the sexer was and had gone over this with Mr. Clark�s o£fice, and had been over the power set up with the power company as far as transformers and would have total electric heating. Hr. George said that with the proper engineering and inspection they could put the sewer in themselves--building those lines and maintaining them, and thQy would belong to the City. He said they would be in the public right-of-way. Mr. Harris asked about going back into the property itself, and Mr. George replied they would build those lines themselves and maintain them. He said they ' intended to run the sewer line into the right-of-way and along the h7est side of Main Street to the buildings themselves, and then go from there back 3.nto the property with the sewer system they would need to give the sewage system to all the buildings. Ae sai.d it would be the same thing xi,th the water system. Mr. George added they were all set with the power company, and the electrical system was all engineered. ile stated the only thing they might use gas for was the laundry system, but they could also go electrical. He said the rest would be all electrical. Chairperson Harris asked about the road system in this particular parcel in the event that they found some other users and leased the land to them. 1•'ir. Oleson said that most of their inquiries started around five acres plus� so it was very feasible it could go for one project on one five acre parcel. Mr: rrokopp stated they would come up with a plan, but it depended on what came along. He stated they weren't going to do anything that Would get �haphazard, but xould get with Mr. Boardman and work out a plan that would be acceptable, Mr. Langenfeld asked what the minimum term £or a lease agreement was� and Mr. Brokopp replied that generally they xere cancellable on thirty days notice. He added that the term could be from five years to fifteen or twenty. Mr. Langenfeld asked if there were any kind of clauses in the agreements which would give them the right to suddenly decide that they needed the property for their own uses. Mr. Brokopp said that there were times Nhen they did need the property--it didn't happen very often, but it could. Mr, Bergman stated that he felt a little concerned that this process was a bit different from the norm in that it seemed Mr. George had a plan to build a particular £acility on a piece of property, and this requires a rezoning in order for him to do so, rather than a rezoning coming prior to a specific huilding plan. He stated they were talking about a property owner's request to rezone the property� and was wondering what elements were yet incomplete prior to the actuality of the construction of the motel. H1r. George stated that it had been worked out so the property could be transferred to B N. L who could give a long-term lease which they needed for financing. He sai.d all the items had been worked out for long-term leasing, and it would be about s 25-year lease. He added it had been agreed upon between the Legal Department of B N L and Burlington Northern's attorney, and the investors were all set� so there was nothing that was left to chance. Mr. George � stated the feasibility studies had been run and the site plan had been made. Planning Cammission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 8 Mr. George stated that in a lot of situations the rezoning request wou2d be � made prior 'to all of this expense, but they £elt they couldn't do that on this one. He said they felt everything had to he worked out prior to them coming before the Planning Commission and asking for the rezoning. Mr. Bergman asked if he was saying they had a long-term lease signed by both parties and a financing document signed subject to rezoning approval. Mr. George replied that was correct; the documents were made and approved end were just subject to rezoning. MOTION by Shea� seconded by LangenPeld, that the Planning Commission close the Public Hearing on Rezoning Request ZOA #76-06 by Georgetwon Motel� Inc. Upon a voice voie, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing closed at 8:35 P.M. Mrs. Schnabel said that since she wasn't at the last meeting her ]mowledge of what preceded was basically what came through the minutes, and she was a little up in the air as to what precisely they wished to do this evening, She said she assumed they xanted to act on the request For rezoning� but beyond that in terms of the rest of the property, she was wondering if the Commission felt they wanted to take some other action. Chairperson Harris said he didn't know if they eould reslly do anything about the rest o�' the property, but they had wanted to talk to representatives from B N. L and Burlington Northern to get their thoughts. Mr. LangenfeZd commented that they had wanted to see if there was some comprehensive plan so they would at lease have a general idea of what was going to happen. � Mrs. Schnabel said it appeared that their intent was that they always intended it to be zoned heavy industrial and they stiTl do. She added she thought it would be difficult for the Commission to make a recommendation or do anything other than act on the request that was before them tonight. Chairperson Harris said that was correct, Mr. Langenfeld said he wanted to thank the people from Burlington Northern for coming in, and he could see that they did have a plan to establish a trend when they started the Georgetown project. He said he wished to make one correction, and noted that it had been indicated in this evening's discussion that salesmen might be having meetings at the proposed motel when Mr. George had indicated at the previous meeting that there wonldn't be any meeting rooms or convention rooms. MO TION by Langenfeld, seconded by Bergman, that the PZanning Co�mnission recommend'to City Council approval of Rezoning Request, ZOA #76-06, by Georgetown Motel, Inc.: Rezone from M-2 (heavy industrial areas} to C-2 (general business areas}� that part of Lot 2� A.S. #78, lying Westerly of the Westerly right-of-way line of Main Street N.E., lying Easterly of the Easterly railway right-of-way line of Burlington Northern, Ine., lying Northerly of the Northerly right-of-way line of Interstate Highw$y �!694� and lyi.ng Southerly of a line drawn Westerly at a right angle to the East line of said Lot 2} from a point on said East line distant 507.60 feei Southerly from the Northeast corner of said Lot 2, except the Westerly � 218,16 of the described property� subject to easement to Northern States Power Compar�y� the same being $600 Main Street N.E. Plannin� Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 9 � Chait�person Harris said he wished to make a statement at this point. He said he hoped that before any further advertisements were sent out on Burlington Northern land and beSore a sign was put up advertising the property� that they could stop in and take a look at the comprehensive plan and get e feeling of the City as to the direction the City would like to head on that particular parcel. He said he spoke to the particular flyer which alluded to the site along East Ri.ver Road and the proposed development which stated "suitable for strip commercial, o£fice business, restaurant and multi-family use." Mr. Harris commented that he did not feel that all of those proposed uses were really compatible with the area. He said he felt that before a sign was put up some of the railFOad representa- tives should stop in for a chat with City Administration and get a consensus of opinion. Mrs. Schnabel said that she was a bit concerned about the traffic patterns. She noted that as this area developed the City should address the traffic flow problem as well as working with the owners of the property. She stated she was specifically concerned that they avoid the type of situation they had on East River Hoad now where property c�as sold or rented to a couple of commercial ventures, and they had a real traffic hazard. Mrs. Schnabel said she could see the same thing happening in this area because it was fairly landlocked by residentia]. areas and she �rould very much like to see the City address this problem as well as the property owners, and the time to do this was now--before it was too far developed. Chairperson Harris stated they � had discussed the tra.t'iic patterns at some length at the previous meeting, including how the people would get there� from what direction they would come, the type of clientele, etc. Mrs. Schnabel said she understood that but was not concerned with just the tra£fic generated from the motel but was talking about the entire area as it sLarted to develop. She pointed out that right nox there were only two funnels of traffic out to University Avenue� and suggested an alternative plan be made or another access to the area. Mr. Harris pointed out that no one Imew what was going to happen-- not Burlington Northern, B N L or the City. He said it could be one large development or five developments of one acre apiece� so they didn't knorr how much traf£ic would be generated. Mrs. Schnabel said she agreed, but they had the same problem be£ore and now they had a serious traffic problem as a result of it. Mr. Bergman said he wished to comment that it had been gratiiying to listen to the representatives from Burlington explain that they had been doing a lot o£ thinking and planning the best theycould� and they xere concerned about it. He stated he felt they had a good exchange and he appreciated their thoughts and statements. Mr. Brokopp said he would like to s�y one more thing concerning the develop- ment of streets. He said that was somewhat of a problem because the minute they planned the street and layed it out� then they £ound somebody came along and wanted that street area. He explained that in the plat for the industrial center where Wickes and those people were, they created street areas but � ttiey didn�t dedicate street areas. He said they gave the streets outlot numbers for each projected street area� and when Plywood Minnesota went in that was immediately dedicated to the City for street purposes. Mr. Brokopp stated that the next year•the road that xent from the entry of the development Planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 10 to FMC and around the pump house was dedicated to the City. He further explained � t,hat last year when Sylvania vent in they dedicated that street, so now if someone came in and wanted the entire remainder of that property where there were streets projected but not dedicated they could lump all the outlots together and have one big piece that was served by roadways. Mr. $rokopp said that was sort of what they were envisioning here; they were trying to develop a plan that would set up the same type of thing. He added they had agreed with the City there would be an entry at 57th. Mr. Langenfeld stated that if they came up with a development plan� the City would certainly like to see it. Mr. Brokopp stated that he had talked xith Mr. Sobeich and they were trying to get somet�.ing to him. UPON A VOICE VOTE� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 2. ,. ... ,, .,� � .,� .,�,,,. �, � .,,. .. .... .. .,..,. n frora M-2 (heavy industrial areas) to M-1 (light industrial areas}, located between 77th Avenue and 79th Avenue N.E, on the East side of Rancher's Road N.E. Mr. Robert Schroerg Mr. Jerry Paschke; and Mr. Jim Benson� representi.ng Mr.. Paschke, were present. MOTTON by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission � open the Public Hearing on Rezoning Request ZOA #76-07 by Robert A. Schroer, Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing open at $:53• ' Mr. Boardman showed the Commission a plat plan for the buildings that are being developed in the Onaway Area. He pointed out the four lots thai were in question and explained they were presently zoned M-2 but Mr. Schroer vrished them to be zoned M-1. He explained the rest of the property was presently zoned C-2. Mr. Schroer explained that one reason they wanted to change to M-1 was because they had a poLential buyer for four parcels of property. He said there was a more limited building construction in a M-1 than a M-2, so he didn't think it would hinder the area. He said he had the builder and the real estate man with him to help answer any questions. Mr. Boardman said he thought there had previously been some concern as to what would happen in this area as far as road layouts, etc. He said the City did have road easement in this area for development of these cormnercial properties. He said he had talked to Mr. Schroer a few days ago as to how that wou2d best be developed, and he had suggested a cul-de-sac to serve the interior properties. Mr. Boardman said that at that time he £elt that maybe the best way would be to keep this as a commercial-type development with that type of a servi.ce road in there. He e�cplained that if they put in a cul-de-sac off of Rancher's Roadt it would pretty much eliminate any practical commercial S use other than maybe an o£fice facility� and atso might predicate a rezoning planning Coimnlssion Meeting - December 8, 1976 � Page 11 � xequest to an industrial-type developanent. Mr. Schroer explained that when the plat was layed out in '70 or '71 there rras an error (he pointed it out on the plat), and it had been discussed by himself, Nlr. Boardman and Mr. Sobeich. He explained that because of that error they were thinking about the cul-de-sac, and the cul-de-sac could serve the same purpose as the service road� but he wasn't opposed to either way. Mr. Bergman asked if lots 1 through 8 xere all presently undeveloped� and Mr. Schroer said that was correct. ' pfr, Boardman said there was also tts possibility o£ expansion by Datsun. He added that he thought at this time, and depending on the type of layout that went in there, he would prefer to see it remain commercial rather than see any of it go to industrial. He said that the difference between heavy industrial (M-2) and light industrial (M-1) was that the M-2 properties were required on an acre and a half and tend to go to an ownership-type operation. He said that the requirements on M-1 properties were half what they were on M-2� and they tended to be smaller buildings. He said they also attracted growing operations triat needed a place to go to for awhile until they out- grew it. Mr. Boardman said they uould pre£er it to stay M-2 to get the type of industry that was developing across the street. Mr. Bergman asked about the allowable uses on M-2 and M-1, and Mr. Boardman repiied the uses were quite similar. Se said that some uses in M-2 were � not alZowed in M-1� such as very heavy manufacturing. Mr. Schroer said that M-2 did allow outdoor storage and M-1 did noi, and Mr. Boardman commented that on M-2 you could not have outside storage without screening. Mr. Jim Benson of Thorpe Bmthers stated he was representing Mr. Paschke� and informed the Commission that Mr. Paschke had built ten buildings in the Onaway Area and only one was a lease building. He stated that all the buildings were well-kept and Mr. Paschke had brought in people who were long-term businesses and good business enterprises. He said that out of all the buildi.ngs that Mr. Paschke had built there was only one that had any blight around it� and there the owner should be given stricter control. Mr, Benson stated that the people that were attracted to this area were small, growing companies, and the market was for small buildings. He said the first two proposed buildings would be 12�325 sq. feet each, and Mr. Paschke was developing to a 35% density instead of the 1�0� allowed by code. Mr. Benson said that Mr. Paschke had changed the look of his buildings to almost commercial-looking� and they vould not look like i.ndustrial £actories. He showed photographs to the Commission, and summed up by saying that this was an opportunity for Mr. Paschke to meet all the codes, ask for no variances, and develop Mr. Schroer's land. Mr. Bergman asked what the actual reason was for the rezoning request. He asked if it wasn�t true that anything Mr. Schroer could build in a. M-1 could also be built in a M-2. Mr. Boardman replied that the rezoning request was because the type o£ buildings Mr. Paschke wanted to build he wanted to split. � Mr. Boardman explained he wanted to have separate ownerships on the buildings, Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 12 and in order to reduce the lot area to three quarters of an acre it was �; necessary to zone it down to M-1. Mr. Be�rgman commented that then he wanted the Tlexibility of being able io put in a loWer square footage tenant and get better density than he could if it remained M-2. Mr. Boardman said that was correct, as for M-2 they would have to have an acre and a half per owner- ship. Mr. Benson commented that there weren�t any 2�,000 square foot buildings in the whole area, and the market was in the 10 - 12,000 sqaare foot range. He added that he thought if it was left as M-2 Mr. Paschke would have to pass and look Yor another area as he would not go out and build a 24�000 square foot building on pure speculation. Mr. $ergman said that with an industrial building, frequently the building got built to a large size with flexibility to subdivide the building to bring in customeis of smaller sizes. Mr. Benson asked if he was eluding to the lt0,000 square foot'building with ten bays of lt,000 square feet each. He said that contractors used to build sma21 buildings, but in about 1969 small buildings became uneconomical to build so contractors started building what they called multi-tenant buildings. Mr. Benson said ihat people have been 2easing these buildings since 1969 and now they are tired of having ten companies in one building, they see the rent being poured down the drain and no equity built up, and they have not been able to take advantage of depreciation so they Nere coming out of these buildings. He stated that these people were now looking for small buildings as they had no control ove� the parking Zot in the multi-tenant buildings or the lawn being mowed, and they wanted pride of ownership and their own name over the front door. Mrs. Schnabel commented that in M-1 and M-2 raw materials could be stored � outside the building if they were totally screened, She asked Mr, Schroer if the intent of the rezoning reqnest'was io sell the entire strip of land or to lease it, and he replied that Mr. Paschke had options on the entire parcel of properties, Mr. Boardman stated that one thing that should be considered somewhat on this was the layout of the entire section, and what would be the best way to develop this as far as road patterns in the area. Mrs. Schnabel said that brought up another question. She said that if they were considering going off of Rancher�s Road and cul-de-sacing, was that plan predicated on the sale oF this? She asked if they were going to dedicate land for doing this before they sold the existing properties they had now. Mr. Schroer ansx�ered that it would be dedicated before they sold. Mr. Boardman said that a lot of this may depend on if Datsun wanted that back property, because if Datsun wanted that property there would be no reason for putting a cul-de-sac in that particular area. Mrs. Schnabel asked if that was done and the property had to be reduced, if they would still be within the 3/�t size for an M-1 zone. Mr. Schroer said he believed so� and Mr. Boardman commented that they would have to be. Mr. Bergman stated that the street pattern had been discussed at a previous Plenning Commission meeting, and asked if they hadn't gotten involved in � a dedication at that time. Mr. Boardman pointed out on the plat the 50' and 30� that had been dedicated, and Mr. Bergman cormnented that he thought they Planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 13 � had covered this subject once as far as their thoughts toward street patterns. Mr, Boardman wondered if this was what they wanted or if a cul-de-sac pattern would be more feasible. Mr. Schroer stated that he thought it would depend on what went in there, and Mr. Bergman agreed that might be the quali£ying factor. Mr. Schroer said that they had discussed the cul-de-sac, and Mr. Paschke was not opposed to it. Mr. Boardr,ian said he thought he xould like to see a more substantial commer- cial development� rather than a strip right up the line with frontage on University; and maybe a secondary commercial develo�nent within that area. He stated he felt that would be more in keeping tirith the total comprehensive plen. Mrs. Schnabel said that she didn't imow i£ Mr. Paschke xas planning to make any of the parki.ng areas joint parking lots, assuming he bought the entire strip, She stated that certainly a street goi.ng through there xould have some affect on his plans, also. Mr. Paschke said he had no plans for joint parking, as he didn't think they would need it. l�lTION by Bergman, seconded by langenfeld, that the Planning Commission close the Public Hearing on Rezoning Request 20A /fTb-07 by Robert A. Schroer. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing closed at 9:25• Mr. Langenfeld noted that no fee was listed on the rezoning request, and Mr, � Boardman said there was a$155 fee� which had been paid. Mr, Bergman stated he had the impression that the progerty owner apparently had planning substantiation for the rezoning request and he ielt no quarrel between a transition £rom M-2 to M-1 to G2S. MOTION by Bergman� seconded by Langenfeld� that the Planning Commission recommend to City Council approval of Rezoning Request ZOA ¢/76-07 by Robert A. Schroer: Rezone Lots 5, 6, 7 and 8, Block 2, East Ranch Estates Second Addition� from M-2 (heavy industrial areas) to M-1 (light industrial areas), located between 77th Avenue and 79th Avenue N.E, on the East side of Rancher�s Road i3.E. Mrs. Schnabel noted that Mr. Boardman had stated earlier that he tended to feel this should remain M-2 zoning� and asked if other than the concern for the nature of the ownership if there were any other concerns. Mr. Boardman replied that generally smaller buildings were built in a M-2 zone wi,th the idea of possib2e room for expansion. He said that with M-1 there usually wasn't room for expansion, so if their business expanded there usually started to be outside storage and parking lots started to be used £or storing materials, etc. He said that this was generally the type of situation they saw in the Onax�y Area. Mrs. Schnabel asked if the City had given any thought to an overall.plen �for�that one strip oS lots five through 8 in terms of its compatibility with the property across Rancher�s Road to the West. Mr. Boardman said he thought it xas compatible useg M-1 and M-2 usually did get along as far as uses of Plenning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 1� property went. He said he thought he xou2d prefer that where they did have att opportunity to develop on a Iarger parcel of property where�there was a possibility for expansion ott that property, that they go to that type of development. He stated he didn�t have any quarrel with the design oF Mr. Paschke's buildings; he thought Mr. Paschke did a good job and in most cases his tenants were good tenants. Mr. Boardman said another thing about this was there was no room on Lhese properties £or outside material screening. He sai.d the property was pretty much taken up by the building and the parking Zot, and when materials started moving outside there was just no room for screening. Mrs. Schnabel asked if it was just coincidence that one section appeared to be quite rrell developed and the other portion didn't seem to have very much. Mr. Boardman explained this was because of soil conditions. Mrs. Schnabel said she was just curious.because obviously there hadn't been a problem developing with M-2. Mr. Bergman stated that he was feeling just a bit uncomfortable with some of this discussion. He said he was not sure he cou1Q accept that a change in zoning £rom M-2 to M-1 would result in all the differences that had been described. Mr. Langenfeld stated he could see what Mr. Bergman was getting at. He said that they were saying in an M-1 there wasn't room for expansion, so now they were going to go to a smaller type structure with room to eacpand, but eventually that structure would expand and reach the same category as the M-L Mx. Bergman said hs was confused hy Mr. Langenfeld� comment, and Chairperson Harris said he understood what Mr. Langenfeld was driving at but � it got confusing because sometimes they were saying M-1 when they meant M-2, and vice-versa. Mr. Harris explained that if a given company was to move into a building of 12,000 square feet.and they expanded to their maximum limit o£ 21t,000 square feet, at some point in time all o£ a sudden 24,000 square feet would no longer be large enough for them and you were right back where you started. Mr. Boardman commented that there wou2d be room for outside storage instead of just parking and building. Mr, $ergman stated that the key distinction he gathered between the tuo zoning categories was the property owners and developer's industrial market input concluding there is a market for industrial buyers for ownership of a limited-size building, and they want to be able to get within that limited size. Chairperson Harris said that it was much easier to sell or lease a 12,Q00 square foot building than a 2l�,000 square foot building. He stated.that the problem that had arisen in the area with the acre end a hal£ lots was that the people who had built there were not e£ficiently using their land; if some of those companies were to expand they would have a great deal of difficulty as there was no place for them to go. He stated that two things entered in; land costs and land preparation costs. Mr. Harris said that if the land was purchased xhen Mr. Schroer could afford to be more reasonable, then the buyer could af£ord to put a sma2ler building on that many square feet of land. He added that those particular sites thst are built on now are on pretty reasonably solid ground, so consequently a builder could afford � Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 1� � to go with a smaller building. H�. Harris said that on the East side of Rancher's Road the soil condition was such that land preparation was going to be'expensive and also because land costs were higher. Mr. Lengenfeld asked if there was any problem with drai.nage� easements, etc., and Mr. Boardman replied there was no problem. UPON A VOICE VOTE, Bergman, Langenfeld, Schnabel and Shea voting aye and Harris abstaining, the motion carried. Chairperson Harris stated his reason for abstaining was because he was a property owner within the area �nd would be affected by this. 3. IAT SPLIT REQUEST: L.S. //76-11 BY ROBIIZT A. SCAROER: Split o£f the Southerly 1 0£eet of Lot � Hlock 2, East Ranch Estates 2nd Addition� to make two building sites, the same bei.ng 7875 and 789s Rancher's Road N.E. Mr. Robert Schroer, Mr. Jerry Paschke, and Mr. Jim Benson were present, Mr. Boardman shoHed the properties referred to in the lot split to the Commission and stated the lot split would predicate two ownerships Yor the development of the building. He explained the lot split would be at the line that would go right between the buildings, so there would be a back �to back wall ("0" loi line}, He said he had origi.nally suggested that the entire thing be shi£ted 15'� but by doing that it would make the lot size smaller than the 3�1+ acre. He added that this would be consistent with M-1 zoning� and each one was somewhat over 3/� acre. Mr. Boardman stated that the square footage needed Was 32;6%0' and there was 32t,655 actual, so it was in accordance with what was required. He added that he would still like to see this shi£ted somewhat to pick up more green around, but it would meet the zoning code the way it was set up. There followed some discussion on various ways to shift this to get more green area, but Mr. Paschke pointed out that the way it was there would be room for more parking if it was required� but if it was shifted there wouldn't be. He said that the way it sat they could come within 5� of the property line� and Mr. Board- man said he agreed with the points taken. � ��hairperson Harris asked how they xere going to get the utilities in� and Mr, Schroer replied that the utilities xere in. Mrs. Schnabel said she would like to lmow if the entire lot 8 was going to be sold to one party or if just the Northerly half was going to be sold at this time and the Southerly half not sold if this lot split was approved. Mr, Paschke said that he would buy the etttire lot 8 and develop the build- ing� and he may have two ovners or possibly one. Mrs. Schnabel said her concern was building on the "0" lot line end the problems that might arise with that if he was not going to b�y the xhole lot 8 at once. Plsnning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 16 MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commi.ssion recommend to City Council approval of Lot Split Request L.S. #76-11 by Robert A. Schroer: Split off the Southerly 160 feet of Lot 8, Block 2, East Ranch Estates 2nd Addition, to make Lwo building sites, the same being %875 and 7895 Rancher's Road N.E. Upon a voice vote, Bergman, Langenfeld, Schnabel and Shea voting aye and Harris abstaining, the motion carried. Chairperson Harris stated his reason for abstaining was because he was a property owner within the area and would be affected by this. Chairperson Harris deolared a recess at 9:55 P.M, and reconvened ihe meeting at 10: 15 P.M. 4. VACATION REQUEST: SAV#76-07, CITY OF FRIDLEY: Vacate existi.ng un- needed roadway easement in consideraiion For additional roadway ease- ments being acquired, located on Lot 1t9, Revised Auditor's Subdivision No. 77, generally located on Talmadge Lane and �5th Way N.E. Mr. Boardman c3irected the Commission to turn to page 39 in their agendas� and showed them the two areas where`:the City wanted to vacate road ease- ments they presently had. He explained that one was located on the revised Osborne Way and the other was where 75th was down by the St. Paul WaterriiTOrks. He pointed out where they wanted a 30� triangle dedicated and another area dedicated. Mr. Boardman stated they had contacted St. Pual Water Works and had gotten verbal agreements, and documents were being drawn up for the exchar�ge oi' easements. Mrs. Schnabel asked Mr. Boardman if the City had reacted in any way to the request from the neighbors who live along 75th in regard to the @rainage problem� and he replied that that was supposed to be taken care of with the new Osborne Way. MOTION by Schnabel� seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commission reeommend to City Bouncil the approval of Vacation Request SAV //76-07, by the City o£ Fridley: Uacate existing un-needed roadway easement in consideration for additional roadway easements being acquired, located on Lot lt9, Revised Auditor's Subdivision No. 77, generally located on Talmadge Lane and 75th Way N.E. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 5. CONTINUID: PROPOSED MAINTENANCE CODE: Mr. Boardman stated that they had gone through to a certain degree the direction that the Commission had given last time. He explained the code had been revised and put into a certain order that was acceptable according to safety, hea7.th and appearance. He added that he was still going through it somewhat to check on the dif£erent property stendards, FHA and,that type of thing. Mr. Boardmen f�rther explained he had an inter.n working on this and was just about ready to present it, � � � Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 pgge 17 6, CONTINUED: HUMAN DEVELOPP�TlT GOALS MI➢ OSJECTIVES � Mr. Boardman informed the Cotmnission he had nothing further on this at the present time. 7. RECEIVE PARKS & RECREATION COMMIS5ION MINUTFS: NOVII�IDER 15 1976 MOTION by Shea, seconded by Schnabel, that the Planning Commission receive the Parks & Recreation Commission minutes of November 15, 1976. Mrs. Shea commented that she had noticed Mr. Langenfeld had requested that the initials be clarified, and they weren't. She said she would appreciate that also. � Mr. LangenfeZd stated that he had read about the Easi River Road project under New Business and he wished it to go on record that Jan Seeger was the only one who spoke up in behalf of the idea. UPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. 8. RECEIVE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY COAQfISSION MINUTES: NOVEA�BER 16 1976 Mr. Langenfeld said he would like to make a couple o£ corrections, and pointed out the last sentence in the £irst paragraph on page 57 should � read "environment and industry" instead o£ °industry and industry". He stated he also wished to bring up that the conversation referred to in the £irst paragraph on page 55 uas not his conversation with l•dalt Starwalt, but this took place with the Chairman of the Project Committee during a City Council meeting. MOTION by I,angenfeld� seconded by Hergman� that the Pla�ning Commission receive the Environmental @uality Commission minutes of Novenber 16, 1976. Mr. Boardman noted that there had.been some discussion under the �viron- mental Education Program concerning the D-evironmental Conmiission trying to get review power over the budget £or the naturalist. He said that any- thing other than discussion on that topic, such as a motion, zaould be out o£ the scope of the ordinance that was established for the k�vironmental Commission. Mr. Langenfeld said he had one other correction, and stated that on page 55� the seventh sentence should read "He said he believed these goals and objectives had an environmental impact that involved the entire City", The word "statement" should be eliminated. Chairperson Harris said he was �ondering about the mining ordinance, and where they Here on that. Mr. Langenfeld said bhey had instructed the City to use the model ordinance from Metro Council and incorporate the needed � environmental aspects of that into an ordinance that could be drawn up by the City and the �vironmental Quality Commission would review it, ftight Plsnning Commission Meeting - December 8� 1976 Page 18 now� he said, the permit they use for mining was the only governing instru- ment as far as restrieting any unnecessary mining. � Mr. Boardman informed the Commission that at this time they had issued two permits on it� and since that time had issued a tag to one of the operators who was to have had an appearance in court today. He explained that the City had told him in a letter that if the debris continued he would be jeopardizing his permit. Mr. Boardman stated that they had not issued a permit to Chives at this time, and said they were app2ying to Anoka County for a clean demolition land fill in the area. Mr.. Boardman said he had talked to Bob Hutchinson on this and he thought they Nould make a recommenda- tion to Anoka County that this application be denied, He explained they did have several problems with Chives' property that they intended to get into when they reviewed it according to the model ordinance. • Mr. Langenfeld said that if the members of the Commission were interested in more specific answers to this question, they could be found in the last two motions on page 51. He explained that they would like to see the ordin- ance i.n concurrence with the permit. Mr. Boardman said they had the power to do this ihrough ihe ordinance they presently had in the application process, as there was a statement in that app2ication for stigulations that a2lawed some flexibility with Staff to issue stipulations on the property. He added that most of the applicatioas were pretty and cut and dried. Chairperson Harris asked if the permit that was issued to Minnesota Transfer was issued to Minnesota Transfer or to their subcontractors. Mr. Boardman replied it had been issued to their contractor. Mr. Harris said that as long � as they were talking about this, he would like to throw out an idea and get the Commission�s thoughts on it. He stated that for years and years everybody said peat was a nasty substance and tried to get rid of it, but in the past few years ii hadn't worked out that raay. Al1 of a sudden, he said, it got fluffed up and ca7.led hlack dirt and was sold for a tremendous price. He �stated that our neighbors to the North on the Iron Range had a commodity they sold called taconite� and they taxed it� and he was wondering about having a black dirt tax. Mr, Boardr.ian asked for what purpose, and Mr, Harris replied to help defray the costs of administrating the ordinance and it also might be a good way of pumping a little money into the park capital budget. ' Mr. Boardman said they were not supposed to have anything over that permit £ee� but Mr. Harris pointed out that the iron mining companies were paying millions of dollars and they ran their school districts off of it. He asked ehy they couldn't use the same rationate on ta3cing black dirt in Fridley to help capitalize the park i.mprovement plan, and said it would be the same as ta5cing any other minable product. Mr. Boardman said he didn�t ]mow what the staLe tax laws said concerning this. Mrs. Shea suggested directing Staff to look into this. UPON A VOICE UOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Mr. LangenPeld said he wished to make a couple of statements in regard to the F}ivironmental Commission. He noted that many negative feelings and ideas came out from ihese various meetings.and Project Committee meetings. He � Planning Commission Meeting - December 8, 1976 Page 19 � stated that the ultimate goal was for the overall betterment of the City and yet here and there they were being accused of violating a charter, and didn�t think they were. He also said that the East River Road Project Committee had been termed as an "interest" group, when it xasn�t intended to be so. He said that he thought some of the Commission members were familiar with the"onslought of citizens from East River Road that came in about 1468 and kept the City Council busy for rneny meetings, and at least they had accomplished that now the citizens were discussing their problems with the Project Committee, who discussed it with the Fridley Ni�vironmen�al Commission� and in turn it xas discussed at the Planning ' Commission. He said that the citizens were airing out their feelings at these various meetings� and what took place was a good £orm of citizen input as well as a controlled-type meeting. Mr. Langenfeld explained that they hoped to use East River Road as.a pilot type thing to go into problems of other roads, maybe extending to Highxay 65, etc. he Mr. Langenfeld said he got a little uptight when he heard they were violating a charter. He stated that ihis was the very nature o£ the reason why the ordinance was changed for citizen participation� and he didn't think �vir- onmental should drop the ball just because other Commissions did. He explained that when people started talki.ng about the environment, they rrere dealing with something a lot broader in scope than hockey, football or a play. He stated that Ehvironmental rras unique and dif£erent, and per'�aps that xas why this Commission was so grossly misunderstood at times. � 9. RECEIVE APPEAIS COMMIS5ION MINUTES: NOVII�iBER 22, 1976 MOTION by Schnabel, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission receive the Appeals Commission minutes of November 22, 1976. Mrs. Schnabel said the Commission might be interested to note that this was intended to be a$1t0�000 house and ;�as on a 50� lot. She said it was a little shocking to find out what you could get £or $1�0,000. Mr. Bergman commented that he thought this meeting rtas more interesting than usual, and noted that Mrs. Schnabel had asked i£ there would be a garage and the builder expla�ned they would not build one but would provide space £or one. He noted that a refrigerator, dishwasher and carpeting were included, and thought it was interesting in view oF a trade-of£ and what a person got instead of a garage. Mrs. Schnabel agreed it was revealing to find out what was included for $�t0�000. Mr. Bergman said that this was an example of what could be built for low and moderate income having not required a garage. He noted that their choice could be $110,000 for an eleven hundred square foot new house, an appreciably lower cost for a five to ten year old house, or renting. He stated there aere all those options there and he thought they had gotten themselves trapped into the fact that in pursuing the objective of providing housing for low and moderate incomes � haitobe new� and had to be purchased instead of xented. He stated that in his opinion, a low or moderate income person � still couldn�i afford to buy this particular house, and Mrs. 5chnabel agreed, UPOH A VOSCE VOTE, AI,L VOTING AYE� the motion carried unanimously. planning Commission Meeting - December 8� 197b Paga 20 � 10. OPEN DISCUSSION MOTION by Langenfeld� seconded by Bergman� thai the Planning Commission receive the letter addressed:.to Councilman Fitzpatrick from George Fred- erick. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. Mr. Bergman asked if this was from a private citizen� and Mr. Boardmen answered it was. �., goyrdman informed the Gommission that there would be a meeting the following night in Coon Rapids on the Land Planning Act from MetrApolitan Council. He said this would be one of the first �eminars, and the City would have a 5taff inember attending and the Planning Commission was invited to attend also. He added that there would be some discussion as to the funding sources, MOTION by Bergman� seconded by Langenfeld, that the Planning Commission receive the memo from the City Attorney on 5pecia2 Use Permits. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. Mrs. Schnabel noted that thi� was the memorandum the Appeals Coimnission wanted. � Mrs. Schnab�hesm.�i.r�iutes for theQVarious�meetings.thSheenoted that�onithe for typing lns were run over so far tYcat the last words even-nwnbered pages the marg� were very difficult to read when the minutes were in the book� and asked that wider right-hand margins be used. Mr. Boardman said it was so noted. ADJO� T' MOTION by Bergman, seconded by LangenSeld, that the meeting be adjourned. Upon a voice vote, a7.1 voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Planning Commission meeting of December 8� 197b e.djourned at 11:00 F•M• Respectflilly su�nitted, ��.(.� '. /�']'.�jyyrofo�- ' Sherri 0'Donnell ; Recording Secretary i . OFFICIAL NOTICE CITY OF FRIDLEY PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: Notice is hereby given that there will be a Public Hearing of the Planning Commission of the'City of Fridley in the City Nall at 6431 University Avenue Northeast on Wednesday, December 22, 1976 in the � Council Chamber at 7:30 P.M. to consider the foliowing matter: A request for a Special Use Permit, SP �76-14, by Naegele Outdoor Advertising Company, to allow the construction of a 10 ft. x 25 ft. billboard, per Fridley City Code> Section 214.042, ta be located on Lot 5, Revised Auditor's Sub- division No. 77, lying in the North Half of Section 10, T-3Q, R-24, City of Frid]ey, County of Anoka, Minnesota. ` Lying approximately 60 feet North of the �sborne Road right of way and 800 feet East of East River Road N.E. Generally located at 151 Osborne Road N.E. Anyone desiring to be heard with reference to the above matter may 6e heard at this meeting. Publish: December 8, 1476 December 15, 1976 � � RICHARD H. HARRIS CHAIRMAN PLANNING COMMISSION _� �-- ,zl CITY OF PRIDLEY MINNGSOTA , - r-2 ' PLANNING AND ZONING f�ORM NUMI3ER ,ff 7( /� � 7'YPE OP RGQUEST � APPLICANT'S SIGNATURE NP.EGEI,E OIITDOOR ADV. Rezoning Address 1700 WEST 78TH STREET Y. Special Use Permit Telephone Number 866-3381 � _ PROPERTY OIVNER'S SIGNATURE �ffr: `�'a A, tch _ Address 620 tiarquette Avenue Approval of Premin- inary $ Cinal Plat Streets or Alley Vacations Other Telephone Number 335-2101 e-�� Fee o2o Receipt Street Location op Property Osborne Rd.btn East River Rd. and University Ave. Legal Description of Property Lot 5, revised auditors sub-division 7 County- Plat 54148, Parcel 900 Present Zoning Classification hl-2 Existing Use of Property Vacant Acreage of Property No. ����' , Describe briefly the proposed zoning classification or type of use and improvement proposed Outdoor Advertising Structure -- , �S 1SZ �� �Has the present applicant previously sought to rezone, plat, obtain a lot split or variance or special use permit on the subject site or part of it? yes X no. {t7iat was requested and when? The undersigned understands that: (a) a list of all residents and owners of property within 3Q0 feet (350 feet for rezoning) must be attached to this application. (b) This application must be signecl by all o�oners of tlie property, or an explanation given why this is not the case. (c) Responsibility for any defect in the proceedings resulting from the failure to list the names and addresses of all residenYs and property o�.mers of property in qucstion, belongs to the imdersigned. A sketch of proposed property and structure must bc drawn and attached, shoiaing tlie following: 1. North Direction. 2. Location of proposed structure on the lot. 3. Dimensions o£ property, pxoposed structure, and front and side setUacks. 4. Street Names. 5. Location and use of adjacent existing buildings (ivithin 300 feet). The undersigned hereUy declares that all the facts and representations stated in this application are true and correcL. AATE j%/3�7(� SIfNA7lIRG�Ix,�P,I`����C (APP AN7') • Date File�l ��/s 7 Date of Nearing •, °,?6- /�?� �/.Ii Planning Commission Approved City Council Approved (dates) Denicd (datcs) Denied �. ���� � i n LJ SP �76-14 Sign Location: Sign Company l51 Osborne Road N.E. Naegele Outdoor Advertising Company SIGN INFORMAI'ION 1, Height (25') 25' (greater than 10' above ground} 2. Area {300 Sq. Ft.) 250 square feet 3. Distance Between Signs (500') greater than 500' 4. Setback From Street Right-of-way Lines (30') greater than b0' 5. Distance From Street Intersection (500') greater than 500' 6: Distance from R-1 Uses (500') qreater than 500' 7. Gondition Status (All Metal) Meta1 8. Zoning (C-2S, M-1, M-2) M-2. Conforms to existing sign ordinance No variances needed a m. _. ^� . • �r : � �_, �,. PAYMENTS SUBJECT. 'f0 SECtTFTr��' pER�IT � .. ^� NAEGELE OCITDQOR ADVERTISING COMPANY, INC. � � Ground Lease No 9°2 �._ AGREGAt[NT ot lua.c m:idc Ihis_�n �lay o[ ��� l4� by and between i%1/%. f'A2 � /�. Y/r��� ... _.. s Lessor and :GELE OUTDOOR The Lessur Jocs hci fur tha mrm i and ending nn CO.. 1NC., u Lesuc. Icasc anJ demise to thc cntire plot or prcmises deuriFed as follows: �.� ti � f�i, i� T�S..J"7 7 Aive beginning on. WeJ rla3r OI_ _. .d �. a.d �n� c��Y or_�---id—/��.. � day of �P��- � �9-Z�- ��J . 19_, at the yeariy rrn[al �S a2�Js D c7 ) payable in equal_�—Al V�+-Y installments at the office ot the Lessee with the right to the Lessee to extend Chis lease from year to yeur upon the samr terms and conditions. it being understood that this lease shall automalically renew iLxlt trom pear to year after the term Aereof. the totai of such er[ensions not to excttd ten years. The Ltsue shal( have the riSht to ereci, place and maimain advertising sign strudurts and equipmrnt therefor on ihe demised premises enJ post, paint, ilhiminate and maimain advertisemenu on such strucmres. All slrucwres, equipmen[ and ma[erials placed upon lfie seid premises by thc Lessee shail aiways remain Ihc perconal property of. and may Ix removed by the Lessee at any time priar to or within a reasonable time after Ihe expiration of the term hercof or anp extension thercof. � Lessor Kuaranrea �o Lessee Gee access to and use of anc part of any gmurtd or structure on said premises es may be nemssary for ssee to hang scaifofds, or cons[ruc�, pust, paint. illuminate. repair or rrmove its adoertixments and strucmres. If at any lime (a) the sigm or stn�cmres of the Lessee on the demised premises :hall be or become rntirely or partially obscured ot stro��ed; or Ibl the said premises �hall be or hecome unsafe for the maimenance of the Lessee's strucmres thercon. or unable w support wch structures: or Icl the value of said location Ior adverrisin6 purpous shall he nr become dimini,hed; or (d) there be a temporary or permanent divercion o( traffic from the street nr streets adjacent w, or Ir.�ding lo or past, the said premius, or a change in the direction of traffic on such street or strcets: or �N the Lessee be unaMe to obtain 4nm the- authoriticc having 7unsdiction any necessary permit for the ereetion or maintenance oC auch �iFn or sigrts (ot spe.ial or stanlarJ size, design �nd cmrstruction) as th>_ Lessee may desire to construn or maintain for the purpose of i:s busincss: or (q the Lessec b� preventiJ by any prescnt or fuuvo law or ordinance, or by the authorities having yu[isdiction. from construc�ine or maimaining on said D�emises cuch signs ioi special or standard size, JesiFn and constructionl, as the Lessee may so desire to canstruct ur maimain—then and in auch evcnt. at �he option of the Lessec. �his lease shall termina[e on iitteen (15) days' notice in u•ritine w the Lessor. by registered mail addre..ed to him at hrs addrcss choM'n helow. or such othet address as Ihe Leuor may hcreaf�er in xriting specify, and thc Lcswr agrces thcreupo� to returr. to the Lec.ce any rent paid {n advance for the unexpiieJ term: provided, hnw�evcr, that if the wnditions Jescribed in (al. lbl. (cl and fd) hereuf, nr any of them, sha0 a[ any time tem- porarily erist, then the Lexsec shaf{ at its option, in lieu of xuch urminaiion nf this Ir.i<c, bc entititd to an abatement o( the renr payable hereunder, for and during �he period nf the exiscence o[ +uch conditiont or any of �hem, and to the murn of any rent paid in advance for the pariaf of such abatement. //� The Lessor reprecents and Wanants that_ �F,L_l�__the .. L/�� _—of the premises al+ove deuril+eJ and has authority tu make this Ieace and. cnvenants that he wi11 noi permit any adioining premi.es, owned. or enntrolled by him, to be uscJ fnr adverti.inc purpoacs or �wrmit Lessce's siRns �o Sr ul.slru<[cd. lt is czpressly underctood tfiat neither thc Lesu+r nor thc Lesxc i. hnunJ by nny s[ipntatinns, represcnt�tinns ar aFreements not princed or wriUCn in thi. leasc. This Icau shall inure ro the I+enefit o( :md he AinJinc u{+on tFk perxnnal rcpresenla�ivex, succasors and aaxigns of thc p�nics httna ' � Lesue hereby sc.crves thc rigDL and snid riFfit i� F*aMed to Lcccec ta+ xclt, assign anA set nver all o( the Les.ce's riFht, tiUe nnd inlCint �n ihis IeasC [n any fin:mcially re<ponsiNe us�ignre upon the capre.. anJ w�riilen :�ssumption M1y the a.aignee of all. of ihe oFli�eation. of Ihe 4esxee herein nameJ and u�n xuch xssumption, l.eccee shall hr fiJly dixharFeJ from any anat r0 �+hliFalions under this ins[rument. In the event th.^.t the lessor gives 30 day nntice o�' the sale�or devein=ment of the ��ro^erty, this �rrr.er�ient taill be c mcelled and ti�e � the lessees ex�ensc. L1-ASE Z':ST3ZCPIQN — NO �AF.GF:LF. OUlDUOR ADVF'RTItiINC CA., INC. I.I+StiPfi r;ns removed at (L. S.1 __..._Mk1rcz�__ _—._ --- <i � � � �J � �( ,. �s�i � _ U l.�J Nf .� 't i�.: T7 TH 4"�A M=E. -l�— , '�, ...�._� .. 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MS' ^°/' Y, 11i• I�: i. , _ . � '�p'�,� �o �� ' �.`��L-�. ��� `�'��` � 1 L U/f�l�. : .� ' �,� q ,, � �- . % �3p 2 5 . . � , � � , ! C �-� � � �, � ,��s� e �'/�: : �3-� -��4 � ' f';�'c �' i .� r • '� x� .r °.;i�' ; � . . : -- � � i . .� t� S � � � � CITY OF FRIDLEY 1 PLANNING PMI'�SION ME�TING - DECErffiFR 22� 1976 PAGE 1 CALL TO ORDffit • Chairperson Harris called the meeting to order at 7s32 P.M. ROLL CALL• Members Present: Harris, Bergman, Lengenfeld, Peterson, Schnabel, Shea MemUers Absent: None Others Present: Darrel Clark, Co�unity Development Administrator APPROVE PL6NNING COI�R�IISSION MINUTES: DECH�iBF.R 8, 1976 Mrs. Schnabel noted that on page 18, the last sentence in the second para- graph should read "He added that most of the applicat�ons xere pretty cut and dried". ?1r. Lengenfeld stated that on page 19, the second sentence in the second paragraph should read "he didn't think the Hhvironmental Commission should drop the ball..."; and the last sentence should read "environment" instead of °ffiivironmental". I�TION by Shea, seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commission minutes of December 8, 1976 be approved as corrected. Upon a voice vote, all voting sye� the motion carried unanimously. 1. OUTDOOR ADYSE%TZSING COMPANY: To allow the construction oi a lU� a� b oar , per Fri ey C ty Code, Section 27.1�.0l�2, to be located on Lot 5� Revised Auditor�s Subdivision /�77� the same being 151 Osborne Road N.E. MOTION by Bergman, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Commission open the Public Hearing on the request for a Special Use Permit� SP //7b-lly by Naegele Outdoor Advertising Company. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing open at 7:37. Mr. Ronald L. Mielke� representing Naegele Outdoor Advertising was present. Planning Coimnission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 2 ADMINISTRATIYE STAFF REPO&T Sign Location: 151 Osborne Roade N.&. Sign Company: Naegele Outdoor Advertising Company J" SIGN INFORMATION 1. Height (25') 2$' (greater than 10� above ground) 2. Area (300 Sq. Ft.) 250 square Feet 3. Distance Between Signs (5�') g='eater than 50�' 4. Setback From 8treet Right-of-way Lines (30'} greater than 60� 5. Distance From Street Intersection (500�) greater than 500' 6. Distance from R-1 Uses (500�) greater than 500' 7. Condition Status (All Metal) Hetal 8. Zoning (C-2S, M-1, M-2) M-2 Con£orms to existing sign ordinance; no variances needed. Mr. Clark stated that this did meet all the ciiteria as Far as advertising signs or billboards. He explained that this would be located on Osborne Road about midvay between the tracks and Main Street on the North side� and North of the St. Paul Water Works. Mr. Clark passed out to the Commission copies of Planning Coimnission minutes from 1975 x�ch discussed several requests concerning existing billboards, and explained that those stipulations went to the City Council and the Council approved the Special Use Permits changing one oP the stipulations and omitt3ng one other (item 2). He pointed out that item 5 stated that the permit would run concurrent with the lease, and the Council added it xould not exceed £ive years be£ore it should be reviexed again. Mr. Clark i.nformed the Cotmnission that all the signs would be reviewed in November o£ 1980. Mr. Langenfeld asked what this sign was going to display, and Mr. Mielke said it uould be changing every month. He added there was a lease restriction s�ying there vould be no tobacco or liqnor advertised, but it xas strictly comnercial. Mrs. Schnabel asked if there xere any other billboards along Osborne Road betxeen East River Road and Uninersity, and Mr. Clark replied there xere none on Osborne at all in the City of Fridley. Mr. Mielke added that it Was xritten in the lease that upon sale or developnent o£ the property the sign xould be taken down. Planning Commission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 3 Chairpersan Aarris asked if this Was a double-Yaced sign, and Mr. Mielke replied that was correct. He said it would be back-to-back, advertising in both directions. Mr. Harris asked what the distance was from the sign to' the railraed right-of-x�y, and Mr. Clark said it was approximately 1�00'. Mr. Harris asked how far it was from the sign to the entrance on Main Street, and Mr. Mielke said he just lmew it xas greater than 500'. He added there was a sign on the property at the present time whic h said "For Sale". Mr. Harris asked xho owned this property� and Mr. Mielke replied Esrl Patch. Mr. Harris comnented there xas no wqy of telling hox large a chunk he had. Mr. Clark noted that lt3Erg' was the Prontage along Osborne from the railroad right-of-rqy to his East line, and the sign vould be sitting in there. Mr. Mielke stated the sign would be located 70' Yrom his West propeity line, so Chairperson Harris figured it would be 3�' from the right-of-way.of the railroad. Cha3rperson Harris asked about the height of the billboard, and Mr. M�elke replied it xas 25' to the top of the board and xas 15� off the ground. He said the size would be 10 x 25�� and it would be all steel. He showed the Coimni.ssion photographs of what it vould look like. Chairperson Harris asked about the mansard shoxn in one of the photographs, and Mr, Mielke replied it had been removed at the city's request and at the advertising company's expense, Mrs. Schnabel asked i£ there xould beAlights, and Nr. Mielke replied there would be no illumination as it vould be too expensive. Mrs. Schnabel asked what Was going to happen to the "For Sale" sign on the property, and Mr. Mielke ansirered that as far as he lmev� it would stny there. Mr. Mielke pointed out that there was a 60� easement by the St, Paul Water Works, and over 60' setback off the highway, so they xere over double vhat the required setback xas. MOTION by Schnabel� seconded by I,angenfeld� that the Planning Co�nission close the Public Hearing on Special Use Permit Request SP �76-1l� by Naegele Outdoor Advertising Company. IIpon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Public Hearing closed at 7:$3 P.M. Mrs. Shea stated that she xould like it in the record that Human Resources ras opposed to any non-conforming billboard in the City. She said it xas bad enough to give a Special Use Perm3t to one that was in� but even xorse to put a nex one in where there xasn�t one. She added she was maridated by her Connnission, and she had to oppose thia billboard. Mr. Bergman said he rrould like to recognize� first of all, that the requested billboard did conform in each item to present Fridley code; they had revieTas in the past �here it almoat seemed like a rarity. Houever, he continued, he xanted to remind the Planning Coa�ission that there was a Project Coirmiittee assigned to reviewing the sign ordinance £or the City of Fridley and that conanittee had been working diligently in reviev oY a fairly detailed, lengtY�yy and cumbersare oxdi�ance. He pointed out they had been doing this for about ten months snd were nearing completion so that this Plaruiing Carunission might possibly be reviewing a reconnnended ordinance change as Planning Co�niasion Heeting - December 22� 1976 Page !t early as Harch or April. Mr. Bergman said he would feel quite avkward iP the Planning Commission at this time xas to approve construction of another billboard in the City� possibly in conflict x&th the ef£ort that has been going on. For that reason, he sai.d, his view was tovard suggesting a moratorium on new billboard construction until they received the ordinance review, or at least in this particular case deferring this request for a nev billboard until the results xere received from the Project Comnittee. Mr. Langenfeld stated he saw what Mr. Bergman xas trying to say� but xondered if they didn't have to make their judgement on the existing ordinance. Chairperson Harris said that wasn't exactly true. He eacplained he had attended a meeting in Coon Rapids last week and this particular item had come up in discussion xith the people from Metro Council� and there xas a provision in the lav that alloxed for setting up an interim ordinance or a moratoriwn while the present ordinances were being re-evaluated. He said that rhether or not this �ould apply to billboards or signs� he did not lmox. He added they hadn't sgecifically discussed it in that character� but there xas a vehicle for vrhich there could be a moratorium. Mr. Peterson stated he thought they were stretching the point in terms of coming up tirith a nex ordinance since the Project Co�aittee xas doing a study to make a recoimnendation to the Planning Co�nission vhich in turn made a reco�gsdation to the governing boc�y. He said the Project Coimnittee vas a study couunittee created by a member Comoission, and xhen they were talking about revising a code they irere talking about City Council action as only the City Council had the authority to make the change. Chairperson Harris pointed out that the Planning Commission could recoimnend a moratorium, end the Council could decide to place a moratorium on all signs. Mrs. Schnabel stated that she xould like to concur xith Mr. Bergman's thoughts on this Imowing that the Project Comnittee had been vorking very long and hard on this and has had representatives from advertisi.ng companies and representatives from the coimm�nity on that study coimaittee. She stated she vould feel inclined to ask the petitioner to either agree to a tabling of the request until such time that the report is ready from the Project Conmii.ttee, or iP that was unacceptable, request the City Council to declare a moratorium on construction until such time that they had a chance to review xhatever changes were recoaartended by the I'roject Commi.ttee. Chairperson Harris stated that he sav one basic problem with this particular application that hadn't been d3scussed. He stated he Yelt there vas a deficiency in the present signing ordinance because it spoke to distance Prom in�ersections� distanee Prom center line of right-of-xay, distance from R-1� parks� schools and public lands� but it did not speak to distance Yrom railroad crossings. He said he thought iY the ordissnce was to be looked at from the standpoint of 500� from en intersection (and he assumed that xas put in because oP safety), then certainly a railroad cvossing should be in there. He said he thought it was just an oversi�ght,_and added he was wondering xhy 500' vas used as distance from an intersection. Plenning Commission Heeting - December 22� 1976 Pege 5 Alr. Clark stated it was probably chosen beaause oY safety, or spacing could be another reason. Mr. Mielke sai.d he could see no problem With safety xhatsoever and again pointed out it xould be 15' off the ground. Mr. C�.ark stated the safety concern xas not the obstruction of view but distraction� and Mr. Harris pointed out that 9�atrak came through that intersection at 70 mph. Mr. Mielke stated he xould like to return to Mrs, Shea's cormnent for a moment, and said he agreed about non-conPorming aiggs. He said that in the past the City had passed ordi.nances and he had to go according to what those ordinances said� and this sign xas conYorming. Mrs. Shea said she realized the sign xas conforming, but didn't agree urith the City Ordinance and couldn't back any new billboazds in the City. Mr. Lengenfeld sai.d that he Yelt if a moratorium ras declared� Naegele should have the existing fee carry over to the point when this was discussed again. Mr. Clark agreed. MOTION by Bergman, seconded by 5chnabel� that the Planning Commission� recognizing there is a$i� Ordinance Project Cortunittee and that Coimnittee has been reciexir►g the present ordinance for approximately 10 months and is indicating that this body mi.ght be revieWing the results of proposed sign ordinaz►ce changes srithin the Harch to April time frame, table thes request for a Special Use Permit, SP #76-1.l; by Naegele Qutdoor Advertising Company, subject to the receipt end review of the Project Connnittee input. Chairperson Harris stated that a tabling motion was a non-debatable motion, and Mr. Berginan said perhaps he should have used the xord "deYer". Mr. Bergman AMENDID the MOTI4N to chenge "table" to "defer". Agreeable to Mrs. Schnabel. Mr. Mielke stated that he had gone in accordance srith xhat the ordinence said nox. He said that the compietion date for tha sig� was on or before December 31, and if this xas deferred to March or �'pril his contract would . not be any good. He noted that the Project Committee had been working on this for ten months alreac�y� and said it could possibly be longer than March or April beYore the study was completed--possibly eoen a year, and they did have the ordinance as it stood right nox. Mr. Langenfeld stated that he personally thought the moratorium would not hold xith this particular type of subject. DIr, Hergman pointed out his motion vas not for a moratorium, but deferring action. Chairperson Harris said he thought that deferring action for three to four months was not a reasonable length oY time, in all deference to the Project Committee. He stated he would be prepared to act on this tonight. Mr. Peterson stated that he spoke against the motion. He said it was fine for people on various commissions to be agai.nst billboards, and he was sure that in every action that was taken in this City there would be people xho were against that particular action. Hovrever, he said, there were things Pl.anning Cormnission Meeting - December 22� 1976 Page 6 going on in the City all the time, and there was elxays a compromise in terms of wishes no matter what happened in any level of government. He said there was an ordinance on their books as far as the City vas concerned which xas to be a guideline in terms of operating. He stated that nox they were s�ving they did not like the way the City operated so therefore they were going to defer taking action on something in hopes that it xould be changed to something they liked better� and from that standpoint he could not support the motion. Mr. Peterson stated they should either deny the petitioner's request and he could take other action, or they shouldgrant it. He added that they could beg the question on az�y ordinance they had. Mr. Langenfeld said that the petitioner approached them in good £aith on the basis of the existing ordinance, and nov they rrere in eYfect saying "sorry, Buster, you are out of the picture until somebody makes a decision". Mrs. Schnabel stated she took eacception to that remark because the motion was a recommendation to the City Council, it vas not final action on this. She said xhat they were recoimaending in the raotion xas simply that the City Council itself declare a moratorium on any f�rther billboard construc- tion until such time the ordinance has been reviewed. She said they xere not saying "sorry, Buater"� but vere saying this was the reco:mnendation and the City Coungal could either agree or disagree. Mrs. Shea stated that theppetitioner was correct in that this ordinance would not be finalized until a year from now as it xould take that long for it to go thrwgh channels, have all the Commissions review it, etc. She stated she would still vote against it, but they did have an ordinance nox that she thought they had to make a decision on. Mr. Bergman said that he had mixed emot3ons on this as the petitioner did come in good fatth and was conforming to the ordinance. He said he would like to talk a bit about the approach to the sign ordinance, and he thought there xere at least two approaches. He stated he didn�t really lmov if there were members on the Coaaai,ssion xho xere Ylatk� against signs, but he thought the Cocmussion looked at this in a couple of different vievs. Mr. Her�nan stated that one line of thought safd that signs were important for local businessmen to adveFtise their business� as being dif£erent from a billboard which was not beneYiting a local businessman directly. He said that Naegele and other similar companies were in the business of making income from putting up billboards, as opposed to a small local businessmen putting up a sign to attract business to his shop, so there vas some distinction. He stated that again the word "moratorium" had come up� and explained that the motion did not provide £or a moratorium. He said iY they wanted to consider that as a second motion, that would be more proper. Mr. Mielke said that their signs vere requested by the people in Fridley, such as Kennedy Transmission� McDonalds, Northtown, etc. He said the people emphasize that they do need the coverage i.n Fiidley. UPON A VOICE VOTE� Bergman, Schnabel and Shea voting aye� Harris and PetBrson wting n&y and Langenfeld abstaining� the motion carried 3- 2. Mr. Langenfeld said he abstained because he xould rather see the Commission vote directly torrard the petition that xas before them, and also because Planning Comaission Meeting - December 22, 197b Page 7 he didn't feel they could really do this in accord�ce xith the existing sign ordinance. Mr. Clark suggested that there might be a time limitat3on on hox long the Co�.i.ssion could defer action, as there Kas on rezoni.ng (60 days). He thought Special Use might have the same length of time, and he thought it was unreasonable to de£er action for a year. Mrs. Shea said she had the feeling this would Yorce City Council to make a decision. Mr. Clark read to the Co�mrtission feam the City Ordinance which sai.d they would have to approve or deny the request within sizty dqys. Mrs. Schnabel said she thought the point was this mqq not be the only request that dame before them xithin the next fesr months. HOTION by Bergman, seconded by Shea, that the Planning Coimaission reco�rannend to City Council that a moratorium be placed on all new billboard construction xi.thin the City of Fi�idley until such time that the present sign ordinance has been adequately revietired. Mr. I,angenfeld stated he vas still vondering if they could actually do that. Chairperson Harris said they could make the recommendation and Council would then have to research the situation rith their legal staff and they had the final sqy on it. He added that there was a vehicle within the lav whereby they could declare a moratorium. pSr, Hielke questioned the moratorium, and stated they did have the ordinance at present and he vas proposing a conformi.ng sign. Mr. Langenfeld said he would like to make a statement that had to dovnrith the City Attorney's memorandum on Special Use Permits. He said he realized they were not talking about Special Use Permits directly in this motion, but it did center around the xhole disaussion. He read from page 2"The Planning Co�aission must draft findings and report the same to the Council indicating its recouunendation as to approval or denial and specilying what, iY any, conditions are necessary regarding features of the proposed use of the building". Mr. Bergman said he would like to reYerence back to Mr. Clark's statement that the Council must take action within sixty dqys. He said he didn't think that xas quite as clean as the implication, because deferring, in a legal sense� m&y be considered taking action on the item. He added that no where in the ordinance did he see discussions on under rrhat conditions deferments could be made� and he knew that rras a coimnon alternative. Mr. Bergman said he uas not an attorney either, but when somebody said "take action^, he would question whether or not a deferment wouldn�t qua],ify as taki.ng action. Ghairperaon Harris,said he didn't think so. He said he thought the intent of the ordinance was either to approve it or deny it. Mrs. Schnabel said that she would like to suggest that one of the alternatives that the City Council had in addition to approving or denying sras to table it. She said that she thought they were begging the question by jumping to Planning Commission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 8 legal opinion on exactly what the City Attorney would reco�mnend in this case. She said she would guess that this was not the first time this has come up in the City of FYidley and probably not the last, and she thought the City Attorney rrould have some opinion on it. Mr. Ber�nan said he thought the second motion did give the City Council the third alternative--that o£ moratoriwn. UPON A vOICE VOTE� Harris, Hergman, Schnabel and Shea voting �ye, Langenfeld snd Peterson aoting n�y, the motion carried 1� - 2. 2. CANTINUED: PRAPOSfiD HAINTENANCE CODE: Continue until January 5� 1977. Mrs. Shea said she would like to recommend to StaYf that they look in Coluirm One of tonight�s newspaper. She informed the Commission that Sprin� Lake Park's City Council would be looking at cockroaches, etc.� as the result of a compiaint from an apartment dweller. 3. CONTINUED: FNMAN D&VFSAPi�NT GOAIS AtiB OBJECTIVES: Continue until January 5, 1977. !�. RECEIVE HUMAN RFSOURCES COMNIISSION MIl�IUTBS: D&CEMBEft 2, 1976 MOTION by Shea� seconded by LangenYeld, that the Planning Commission receive the Human Resources Gommission mi.nutes of December 2� 1976. Mrs. Shea said she would like to bring to the Co�mnission's attention the motion in the second to last paragraph on page 28. She stated the Red Cross requested the City of Fridley to buy one "baby" for the C.P.R. Program� and explained that C.P.R. stood for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation. Mrs. Shea said they were hoping to buy ten "babies" and 10 "Annies", and explai.ned that these xere dolls xith electronic parts so the students could practice resuscitating a heart. The "babies" vere infant dolls and the "Annies" were the large ones. She said that the courses they offer would be free, and the people �rho have gone to this s�y it is vital to people of the Comunission's age group on up. The "babies" cost $160 and the "Annies" $320. Mr. Clark asked hox long the class xas, and Mrs. Shea replied 8- 12 hours. Mrs. Schnabel asked i£ the resuscitation xas dif£erent from the type of resuscitation given to e person rrho has shock, and Mrs. Shea replied that the heart stimulation was more importatit in this one. She explained this was more for a heart attack patient, and this wasn't the Red Cross life saving course. Hrs. Schnabel said she thought the costs were quite high for the dummies� and Mrs. Shea explained these were different from the ones used in the life saving course. She said these had electronic heart beats that must be stimulated by the students to pass the course. Mrs. Shea stated that the idea o£ the Red Cross xas to reach everybody in Fi'idley �rith this course, and they wsnted ta get at least ten each of the pp�ies" and "babies". Planning Cormnission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 9 Mr. Clark commented that he felt this vas a great program; the only question he had was whether the City xould be better off buying these for the Fire Department so that they would be right here for our own Police and Fire Departments. Mrs. Shea said that from uhat she understood, it xas very difficult to get enough "dummies" together at one time to tzach enough people. She eaplained that Spring Lake Park had txo but xould not let them out of their schools, and Columbia Heights had two but wouldn't let them out o£ their Fire Department. Mr. Clark said the Fire Department operated the same course through the Red Cross, and explai.ned they already had an "Annie" and it xas all over the City constantly. He said they were all stretching £or the same thing--to teach the people hox to do this. Chairperson Harris asked if the City donated $160 to buy a"baby", where it would go. Mrs. Shea said it xould go into Anoka County as part of Anoka Couniy and they would pool their resources and travel about the county teach- ing this course. She explained their goal was to blanket the county with these courses so everyone xould end up going to one rrithin the next year. Chairperson Harris commented that this was the one time he could remember that he felt $160 wasn't enough for a program. Mr. Clark said he wasn't speaking against the program--he thought it aas great and everybody should take it. His only question to Council vould be that they research the resources they have locally and see if it could be better used here or there. In having it here, he said, our oxn Police and Fire ➢epartments would have better access to it; wheress in a County program it might only come here once every three months or six months. Chairperson Harris said that perhaps they should b�q tvo babies; one for here ead donate one to the County. That xay, he said� Fridley would have a big one and a little one for its ovn use. Mrs. Shes asked what shape the Annie vas in� and Mr. Clark replied that it kas almost worn out. He explained they had two--one was practically worn out and the other Was relatively nex but didn�t record. Mr. Clark said he thought that Staff could pull together a better recommendation for the City Council. He thought by the time it got to the Council Mr. Hughes would have a better report prepared. Chairperson Harris noted tha.t this would come out of Auman Resource's budget� and Mrs. Shea said she xas aware oY that. UPON A�iOICE VOTE� all voting sye, the motion carried unanimously. MOTION by Shea, seconded by LangenYeld� that the Planning Com¢nission recoimnend to the City Council donating a$160 pbaby� to the Anoka County Red Cross and purchasing for the City a"baby" and an "Annie" £or the C.P.R. Program. Upon a voice vote, all voting �re, the motion carried unanimously. Mrs. 5hea pointed out thst the �noka County Community Action Advocate Program wuld be on their agenda next month, and invited anybody rho xould like to listen or comment to attend. Also, she said� there xas a letter to the editor tonight in the paper regarding this. t�. Planning Commission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 10 5. . RECEIVE PARKS & RECREATIOii CO2�t1ISSZON MINUTFS: DECII�ffiER 13� 1976 t�TION by Peterson, seconded by Schnabel� that the Planning Commission receive the Parks & Recreation Coimnission minutes of December 13, 1976. Mr. Bergman asked wby n3ght flooding xas better than d$y flooding� and Mr. Reterson replied because there xas usually no wind at night and because o£ lower temperatures the freezing time xas usually quicker. Also, he said, xhen the rinks xere flooded during the day there xas the added problem of kids coming home from school and walking across the rink before it had set. 13r. Isngenfeld stated that on page 6� under New Business and the Request by Lion's Club, he happened to be that person referred to rho made the verbal request concerning Moore Lake. Mrs. Shea said that as long as they xere on the subject oY Moore Lake, she Was xonderi.ng why that uas one of the fex parks in Fridley where the gates where kept locked. Mr. Peterson stated he couldn't ansver that other than the Pact it xas for safety as it xas a hazardous area. Chairperson Harris asked if the xhole Moore Lake situation wasn't a losing battle, and Mr, Peterson said that the Parks and Recreation Commission was going to have to make a decision on that in February. He said they would have to decide if they were going to have a swimming program this year and if it was worth the effort because of S�ti�ner's Itch, lov water level� etc. He added that they had asked StaPf for a recoimnendation, and Mr. Langenfeld conenented that even if the lake vas closed for svimming� people xould still sxim there anyrray, rlr, Peterson stated he would hesitate to close down the lake because he felt anyone Who lived in the State of Ninnesota should lmow hox to svim, and there rras a large number of kids in Fridley vho had learned to sxim in ?foore Lalce. He added that here they were learning to swim in lake conditions, and i£ that was closed down there xas ao place to take them. Mr. Langenfeld said that the problem of S�ri�aner's Itch would relate indirectly to the Water Quality Management Planning Workshop which Would be conducted by Metro Council as they would be discussing swimming and fishing. Chair- person Harris said he real3zed Moore I.ake xas all they had, but perhaps they should look at it for what it really xas. He stated it really wasn�t a lake, but a drainage retention pond. Mr. Peterson agreed, and said that xhari the nomenclature of a lake vas maintained then there xere these conf7.icts. He added that it could be treated srith chemicals that vrould be safe to the people and to the ducks. Mr. Langenfeld said he agreed that it really wasn't a lake� but in terms of area that the xater enveloped it �ras considered a lake. UPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting sye, the motion carried unanimously. 6. RECEIVE COMM(3NITY DEVEI.OPME[�T COl•Aff�SSION MINUTFS: DECII�ffiER 1!t 1976 MOTION by Berginen, seconded by Peterson, that the Planning Commission receine the Community Development minutes of Decamber llt, 1976. Plenning Coaunission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 11 Mr. Bergman asked the Commission to note on the last page of the minutes that Comrnunity Development received and accepted Mr. Schneider�s letter of reaignation from the Community DeveloFxnent Commission and from Chairmanship of the Sign Project Committee, and they also approved Mrs. Pat Gabel as the replacement Chairperson for the Sign Project Co�nittee, Mr. Bergman stated he would like to discuss a rather controversial item, th�t being the recommendation on mA*�m++m sizes of accessory buildings. He said that Por the record� there vas an error halflray doti+n the £ourth para- graph on page 2. It read "After the second one� he can huild up to 21t0 sq. £t. srith no problem"� but should read "After the Pirst one...". Mr. Bergman said that in response to the last paragraph on page 3, they had been asked si.0 months ago to revierr the ordinance xith regard to second accessory buildings� and nox they had been asked to reviev all accessory buildings. His Bommission found that there xere controls o�er the size, and a nwnber where they applied. He stated one vas lot line setback, one vas the 25� lot coverage control, one vas the control of a Special Use Permit� and another one xas finances. Mr. Bergman said he was expecting Mr. Boardman to be at this meeting ae he was going to ask him to repeat another control that vas not brought to anyone�s attention at the previous Special Use requesta which Mr. Boardman had found somewhere in the back section of the ordinance. He stated it was an ordinance in xhich any buildings in a back yard had to conform to some percentage in relationship of back yard total depth, and possible total sridth. Without concluding on this, he ssid, he got the impression that the Planning Commission had approved at least one second accessory building xhich was of such a size that it Was in violation of the code. Mr. Clsrk said he �rould try to find what Mr. Hergnan xas referring to. Mr. Bergman said they had talked about putting a limit on in the ordinance oP so many square feet. He said that would take it out of the Special Use Permit category and put. it in the ordinance as a control. However, he continued, the same person that came before the Planning Conunission and justified a Special Use Permit xith a hardship case (i.e., keeping his truck, storing entique cars, etc.) could go before the Board of Appeals �rith the same hsrdship case requesting a variance. He stated that they conclnded that there wasn�t much di££erence. Chairperson Harris stated that there was a definite di£ference, and a varience was en eniirely d3fferent ball game than a Special Use Permit. He sai.d that the burden of pro�f for denial of a Special Use Permit lied vith the City� whereas the burden of proof for the need for a variance lied uith the petiti,naer. Mr. Bef�nan stated Cormnunity Development Pelt they had to consider the magni- tude oY the problems and they concluded that there rere very few� and could lo'gically be treated on an individual basis such as they did. He sai.d he was also reminded that this bo�y voted to approve the two Special Use Permits in consideration o£ reasons given by reque�tors� and he didn�t think if they had gone before the Board of Appeals they would have taken a different course. Hrs. Schnabel said she had Pound the item that Mr. Bergman had referred to, and read to the Commission: "Aceessory buildings 3n the aggregate occupy not more than 35� o£ the area of a required rear yard". Mr. Clark stated the trick was to find the area required� and to do this you had to go back to the rear yard requirements Which said the depth of it had to be 25% o£ Planning Commission Meeting - December 22� 1976 Page 12 of the lot depth, not less than 25 feet and not more than 1�0 feet. He said that therefore a lot of 80� x 120' would have a 30' rear y ard requirement, vhich xould be 8l�0 square feet maximum £or an accessory building. Mr. Bergman commented that he thought one Special Use Permit they had granted exceeded that� and Chairperson Harris agreed, Mr, Peterson said he thought that particular petitioner had a larger lot� so the ratio would go up. Mr. Harris recalled this man had a siding truck he xi.shed to keep in the accessory building, Mr. Bergman said that they xere not aware of any real problem vrith the size oF the first accessory building, so they got back to the old question of the secnnd accessory building xhich they had covered before, and that is what prompted Mr. Oquist�s corrunent. He repeated that Community Development felt there were some controls, and the requests should be judged on their merits. Chairperson Harris said he would like to pose this problem: Suppose a man came in and said he wanted to build a second accessory building snd wasn't quite sure what he wanted to do xith it but did want it for storage and to put some cars in, etc., snd then ended up in the body shop business. Mr. Bergman co�ented that NIr. Lindblad+s approach srould be to grant the building because it would be better to have him do that in the garage than out in the yard. Mr, Harris said that his argument to that would be it xas a commercia� enterprise in an R-1 district and should not be allowed. Mr. Bergman said he Would be in violation oY the code� and Mr. Clark said he would be conducting a home occupation outside the main d�relling. There folloxed a lengthy discussion on home occupations� and t4r, Clark read the definition of home occupation and said he thought it was a little unclear. Mr. Ber�nan said he thought they �rere talking about a couple o£ different poi.nts here. He said they vere addressing if an accessory building o£ az�y size should be allowed or should it not� and really they couldn�t even hendle that problem. He stated that all it boiled down to xas that if the ordinance was changed,iit xould run through the Board of Appeals instead of the Planning Conunission� so Coauaunity Developaient Pelt they should leave it the vey it xas, Mrs, Schnabel stated that they had an ordinance right nov vhich established the line of procedure for Special Use Permits, and to run it through the Board of Appeals Would require a change in the zoning ordinattce. She said she hadn't been prasent at the meeting vhen the requests came through the Planning Corrmiission for the permits that had been discussed, but she was not sure that running it through the Board of Appeals was necessarily the w�y to go on that. Mrs. Schnabel said that when something xent through the Board of Appeals it more or less passed this Coimnission, and she thought the Planning Coimnission had a little more suthority to get into the business use of that type of dxelling than the Board o£ Appeals did. She stated that for that reason, she thought it should keep going through the Planning Commission. UPON A VOICE VOTE� all voting sye� the motion carried unanimously. ��` Planning Commission Heeting - December 22, 1976 Page 13 Chairperson Harris asked if the Planning Conmussion was in concurrence xith Coimmmity Bevelopment. MOTION by Peterson� seconded by Bergman, that the Planning Commi.ssion concur trith the Co�unity IIevelopment Cormnission that the ordinance on maximum size of accessory buildi.ngs remain the same �rith no change. Mrs. Schnabel stated that she thought they should extend their appreciation to Comm�mity Development far looking at this again, and Chairperson Harris said he vould also like to extend his appreciation but intended to vote against the motion. He commented that he did believe they had to tighten up on the R-1 areas. Mr. Clark suggested that it might be better to look at the ho�occupation definition and better clarify that and tighten it up. Chairperson Harris said he would like to treat everyone equally, and he couldn't see wi�v they should allov one particular line of endeavor to operate in home occupations and not another particular line. He said he ras certainly not pushing for back-yard body shops and felt they should leave the co�nercial enterprises to the commercisl areas as that xas why they had zoning. Mr. Clark said the other problem was some of these may not be home occnpation people; they could be painters xorking Yor someone else and storing paint and tarps in the garage. Chairperson Harris said the problem xas, that type of thing tends to overflou; the manmrith the siding could start out that Kay, but pretty soon it wasn't big enough. He said that soon things started to be stored outside, which didn�t do the integrity of the R-1 neighborhoods aqy good. Mr. Harris sai.d the question xas how to limit this. He said he didn�t have much bad Feeling about the person vho brought home one car and fized it inside the garage as that Wouldn't disturb the neighbors� but pretty soon there was one parked outside and soon another one, and the neighborhood deteriorated. Mr. Bergman co�ented that he had mi.xed feelings on this� as about 48T egreed frith Mr. Harris and the other $2;g leaned tovard the other side. UPON A VOICE VOTE, Bergman, Langenfeld, Peterson, Schnabel and Shea voting �ve, Harris voting a�y, the motion passed 5- 1. OTHER BUSINESS: Mr. Clark pasaed out to the Commission copies of a document concerning the 208 Management Planning Sjrmposium. Mr. LangenYeld explained that Ms. Larson from the League of Women Voters had asked the Fhvironmental Quality Cou¢aission if they would mi.nd sponsoring this symposium. He said that the Commission took this up and xas in favor �£ it snd in £avor of sponsoring this type of thing, Hoxever, he stated, it came to their atte�tion th�t they might be erroneously sponsoring a private organization and they Were Honderi.ng i£ it ras permissable £or a Commission to sponsor a private group. Mr. Langenfeld said that gersenally he Pelt they could sponsor this because it was an environmental teaching and educationaJ. process, and sai.d he was merely . �_n _ _ _ , Planning Conunission Meeting - December 22, 1976 Page 11� bri.nging t�is beYore the Planning Cocmaission Por comments concerning sponsor- ship and insight as to i£ they could sponsor this organization. He added that iY they did sponsor 3t, all they asked the Fhvironmental Co�nission to do xas to help with the publicity if possible. Mr. Clark asked if the program involved cesspools and sgptic tanks, and Mr. Langenfeld said it concerned vater management, Mr. Clark said that iP all it entailed was cesspools and septic tanks� it really didn't involve Fridley. He said that he thought it was probably good that Cormni.ssions want to sponsor something, but he believed that before they did they should bring it to the Planning Couenission and the Planning Co�noission should make a recommendation to the City Council, Chairperson Harris asked if this 208 was a document, and Mr. Langenfeld explais�ed that was the title that had been assigned to the program. He said that whenever they talked about vater quality� they might just refer to it as 208. Mrs. Schnabel suggested that there may be a lot of residents in E�idley who had lake cabins and would be interested in this program. MOTION by LangenYeld� seconded by Bergman� that the Planning Coimnission recornnend to City Council that the F%idley Flivironmental Quality Co�mnission sponsor the Water Quality Management Planning Workshop. Upon a voice voie, all noting �ye, the motion carried una�imously. Mrs. Schnabel brought up the subject of the Union 76 station, and asked if one of th�der stipulations didn't have somethi.ng to do with the physical building itself. She said the reason she asked xas because none of that ceme up in the minutes of the City Council meeting, and added that they did approve it with their own stipulation--a fence. She said that there was nothing about direction arrovs. Mr. Peterson pointed out that the City Council had the right to either accept or reject the Planning Commission's stipulations. Chairperson Harris commented that doors on restrooms should be required in the building code. ADJOURNMENT: MOTI013 by Shea� seconded by Langenfeld� that the meeting be adjourned. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye, Chairperson Harris declared the Planning Commission meeting of December 22� 1476 adjourned at 10:11 P.M. RespectfUlly submitted� ��,n,' ��� z,� � � Sh rri 0'Donnell Recording Secretary d��y ew � flUMAN RESOURCES COI�i•IISSZO*I MEETING DECEMBER 2, 1976 MEMBERS PRESENT: Barbara Shea, 1IaroLd Belgum, Grace Lynch, Harold Scott MEM&ERS ABSENT: None OTHERS PRESENT: Iris Korwich, 10184 Nightingale St. N.W., Coon Rapids - C.P.R. Red Cros: Sandy McKenna, 2ll3 - lOSth Lane N,Ld., Coon R3pids - C.P.R. Red Cross Greg Brzining, 608 LincoLn Ave., St. Paul Richard Kahn, 7900 Xerxes Ave. So., Mpls. - Canadian Financial Corp. David Lubinsk, 6181 - Sth St. N.E, Monte J. Bute, 1615 S. Ferry, AnoY.a - Anoka County Co�unity Action Dennis Schneider - Councilman-elect CALL TO ORDER: Chairperson Shea cailed Che meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. APPROVE NOVII�ER 4, 1976, HUI�fAN RESOIii;CES COtII�ffSSION MEETSNG 24I\UTr.S: MOTIO\T by Harold Belgum, seconded by tidilliam Scott, to approve the November 4, 1976, Human Resources Commission meeting minutes as written, .Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimoUSly. Mr. Scott stated that he had read in the paper that the Planning Commission had eoted in favor of the garage requirement. He wanted Co emphasize again that the . Human Resources Commission does not condone tl�e principle of a garage requirement as a stipulation for building as stated in their motion in the September 2, 19J6, minutes. CONTINUED: MINI-GRANT PROGhAM: Ms. Shea stated she had called the bureaucrats in Tdashington azid talked to five different people and they are noco going to send further information on this. Mr. Scott stated that this ties in so closety with what is set aside in the budget for Human Resources and he was wondering that when this comes up, the Commission could simultaneously get tiie breakdoc.n� of what is set aside in Chat budget so they can make a judgment of both at the same time. ' Ms. Sliea stated that this seemed like a very good idea. s��r:+� AUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION MIiJi'fING DECEM;3ER 2, 1976 PAGE 2 MOTION Uy Grace Lynch, until the next meeting unanimously. RED CROSS - C.P.R.: seconded by Harold Belgum, to table the Mini-Grant Program Upon a voice vote, a11 voting aye, the motion carried Mr. Scott stated he wanted to bring to the Commission's attention that heart problems is the No. 1 killer in the country. There is a program being launched by a sub- covunittee of the Anoka branch of the American Red Cross for Anoka County residents that has real merit. He wanted the Commission to liseen to Ms. McKenna's presenta- tion of this program, and he would like to see the Commission participate in this program with a donation: Ms. McKenna stated that C.P.R. means Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and it is the - art of manual technique of reviving someone immediately afte.r a heart attack. It means that before emergency help arrives, a person can save a victim from a heart attack. Only we can stop the heart attack from being the No. 1 killer. The doctors know how to stop the heart attack; it is a matter of us getting ho the victim before the doctor does. There is a nationwide program being launched right now as far as C.P.R. is concerned. Seattle, Washington, is THE place in the counCry to have a heart attack because the C.P.R. program is so extensive and launched there, Ms. McKenna stated that they, on the Red Cross branch committee,feel it is very like.y Anoka can be Seattle �62, but theq need to launch the progranz and make everyone aware that therc is a way tu get to a victim immediately. In order to do,that, they have to make the public aware of the program, they have to be aole to r+.in the classes, and to run the classes, they r.eed the equipment. The equipment consists of a dummy on which is done L'he demonstration of artificiai respiration and artiiicial circulatic This equipment' is expensive--the regular "�nnie" costs $320 and the "Baby" costs $160. In order to get the county going and in order to get classes set up in ez�ery town in Anoka Cotimty, they figure they need $4,000--10 "Annies" and 10 "Babies". They are hoping to achieve this by the end of February 1977. After they realize their equipment, they wili Ue going to the community schools, high school curriculums, industries, and any cpecial interest group that desires to have a class. What they are asking of the Human Resources Co�ission is $160 to buy a"Baby". Ms. McKenna stated that some private institutions do own this equipment. They have found out from par[iat resulbs from a survey that the private institutions that do own their own equipment have bought them with their own allotment and they do not loan them out unless the class is offered in their facilities. MOTION by William Scott, seconded by Harold Belgum, that the I3uman Resources Coumiission recommends that, if money is available, $160 go to the C.P.R. Fed Cross to buy a"Baby". Upon a voice vote, all voting aye., the motion carried unanimously. ANOKA CO'JNTY COMMIJNITY ACTION - ADVOCATE PROGRAM: Ms. Shea stated that the Commission members had all. received a copy of the "Request for an Advocate Program". h� HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION P�ETING DECEMBER 2, 1976 PAGE 3 MY. Bute stated thaC this is not a CAP project. This has been put together by a group of low income people in the coimty--8�/ of the work, writing, and researching has Ueen done by the low income people. Tre prupasal itself is going to be put forward formally by a group called the Anoka County Equal Rights Organizing Committee. Mr. Scott stated he is not sure this is the approach to use to solve the welfare � problems if there are problems. If there is an indictment against the weifare department of Anoka County, Chen someUody has got to at least identify these . problems and bring them to the attention o£ the proper authorities so some action will be taken. He thinks they should be attacicing the welfare system. He doesa't think hiring three advocates is going to do the job. Mr. Belgum stated'he did not agree. This is a very modest program to try to alleviate some of the harassment and embaxrassment that welfaie people have to endure. Mr. Bute stated thaC this was a good discussion but the problems in this county are not going to be solved by this type of discussion. He listed some of the terrible things that are going on to the welfarE recipients in Anoka County; they are life and death situations. It sounds nice to do it in a harmonious manner but it only means one thing. It means the same thing as reconciliation. One side gets everything and the other side gets reconciled to it. MOTIG,9 by Harold Eelgum, seconded b;> Grace Lyncl:, Lliat t!ze Human Resources Commission endorses the "Request for an Advocate Program". MOTION by William Scott to anend the above motion to also read that tSe Com�ission recou�ends the reduction Ln one advocate for a ene year p�riod and funded for a one year period as a demonstration projece. The motion to amend died for lack of a second. UPON A VOICE \TOTE, SHEA, LYNCH, BELGUhi VOTING AYE, SCOTT VOTING NAY, THE P'i0TI0N CARRIED. Ms. Shea thanked Mr. Bute for attending the meeting. A 95 REVIEW (144 Unit Apartment Complex) ALICE WALL ADDTTION: Mr. Richard P.ahn was at the meeting to represent Mr. Wall. Mr. Scott stated he wanted to know �ahat the rental rates would be on these apart- ments. Mr. Kahn stated that as the project is planned, there wi11 he efficiency, one- bedroom, and [wo-bedroon apartments. Rouohly, the rents will run $190/month fot the efficiency, $230/month for the one-bedroom, and $270/month for the two-bedxoom. � ,� � °'' RUMAN P.ESOURCrS COi'Il�IISSICtd MEETINGa nECCM13ER 2, 1976 PAG� 4 Mr. Kahn stated that as listed in the questionnaire, there are 144 units at this time. Of those 144 unir>, 58 of those wi11 Ue s�Usidized under the Federal Section ,. program. The tenants who live in these units wi11 pay 25% of their income for rent. Mr. Kahn explained to the Commiscion that the Section 8 funds that would be made available for this project would come from the State Housing Finance Agency. That is where the project is y,oing to be financed with a mortgage. Those funds will be made available wiLh contracts expressly for this project. They will not come out of any pool that had been otherwise reserved for the City of Fridley, so that to the extent these units are made a�;ailable on this project, they would be over and above any other Section 8 units that would be coming to the City of Fridley through an allocation from the Metropolitan Council, HUD, or from wherever they might get them. There is a different maximum rent schedule for new construction, They are quite a bit higher so that, in iact, these rents are under the limits for new construction and anybody who shcws up and their income is under the Section 8 maximum income, they will be able to rent that unit by paying 25% of their income. Ms. Lynch asked the question that of these 58 uni[s, are'they going to be efficiency, one-bedroom, or. two-bedroom? Mr. Kahn stated that it hasn't been decided for sure yet. He assumes they would be spread out among the three. The units would also be spread throughout the building. They would not all be cJ.ustered together, and the units :hat would be subsi.dized woul.d be exactly the sarnn as tt�e other unit's. Ms. Lynch staCed she would like to see these apartments actually specified as efficiency, one-bedroom, or twu-bedroor,i. Mr. Kahn stated that subsidy will. be available for the 58 unzts. They will`do everything they can to fi11 these miits with people who are eligible for this subsidy program, Under the law, :'tf no one shows to rent one of these units, the unit can be rented to someone who can pay full rent. He doesn't think this will happen--he feels they can easily fi11 the units up with people eligible for the subsidy program. Mr. Belgum stated his concern aUout how the people eligible for this program would hear about it. Mr. Kahn stated that one way is advertising in newspapers oriented to minority and 1ow incame groups. Another t�ay is putting posters in community centers, clinics, etc. He said from the State, included in the mortgage, they will have a budget of. almost $30,000 to conduct advertising and marketing for.this project, so that what needs to be done can be done. Mr. Kahn stated that for very low income families, ttiose families wi1T pay only 15% of their income, so there is a potential for serving people of very low income. I .�_. � RESOURCES 1. Mr. Scott expressed his concern about a dwelling of this type attracting an increase in crime. He asked Mr. Kahn if he or that corporation had ever studied that problem to see how it could best to alleviated. Mr. Kahn stated [hat he doesn't work for the Wa11 Corporation; he works for the Canadian Finance Corporation who is doing work for Mr. Wall. He said Chey very possibly will be the management agents for this projecl-. What they have done, for example, in their projects is they have a man who manages their projects who has a graduate degree in social work. This man has special training and is capable of dealing with people. This man manages the project in Golden Valley, which consists of 274 units. There was an article.in the paper recently, and they found that there were no problems with extra police calls there. They feel it partly reflects the fact that the man knows how to d�al with people and is doing a good job. The State requires that you come in with some kind of plan indicating that you will bring in qualified people and the fee allowed is sufficient to get the qualified people, Mr. Kahn said, if they manage this project, he can guarantee that this wi11 be done. They have on their staff a man who is a trazned social worker and he coould at least be going about the setting up of comprehensive social services programs for this particular project. In addition to him, there would also be a resident manager on the site trained by this man and trained in the areas needed, Mr. Scott told Mr. Kahn that if they ever document what this social worker does, the Co�ission wouLd be interested in having a copy. The Commission doesc't want to burden private businesses, but they do expect them to carry �heir fair share. They want to make sure they don't create problams. Mr. Scott noted that from the "Civil Rights Im�act Questionnaire" that Mr. Wall has previously been involved in a number of publicly-financed projects constructed and operated in accordance with all applicable equal opportunity requirements. He asked Mr. Kahn if he knew of any of these. Mr. Kahn stated that Mr. Wall has an apartment bui2ding ir! South Minneapolis called the Friday Street Apartments, 3030 brew Avenue. He also built one of the senior citizen high rises in the City of Minneapolis in South Minneapolis. A construction company that Mr. Wa11 owns has built a number of public schools in this area and hospitals and facilities like that. i4ost of those projects did involve some kind of public funding and the construction contracts all had standard equal opportunity requirements. That Mr. Kahn knows of, Mr. Wall has never been cited for £ailure of this. Mr. Scott asked Mr. Kahn if Mr. Wall could make a conenitment to work with the Chamber of Commerce, as well as the Apartment Owners' Association and this Commission, in the event there are tenant/landlord problems to at least set the groundwork for resolving tenant problems and resolving the problems equitably to all parties. The charge of this Commission is to resolve harmoniously these kinds of things within the community. Mr. Kahn stated he is sure Mr. Wall would be happy to do that. �� HUMAN RESOURCBS COMNIISSION M.lETING, DECIiMPER 2, 1976 PAG� 6 Ms. Lynch brought up the problem that �here are no three-bedroom apartme.nts and there is not enough space for children. Mr. Kahn stated Chat right no�a the way they are proceeding with this project, there are specific plans which have. been approved by the City of Fridley. As they were approved for the 144 units, the,� did not include any three-bedroom apartments. The State Housing Pinance Agency is encouraging them eo look at this again to determine whether or not tl�ey might want to include three-bedroom units for this reason. It is possible that they could be added. If three-bedroom units are added to the project, they wouldn't be able to do it unless the Fridley Planning Commission and City Council approved it. But, it is being explored right now. If three bed- room apartments are added, the efficieecie� would he reduced by 15 and 15 three bed- room units would be added. MOTION by �+Tilliam Scott, seconded by Harold Belgum, that the Human Resources Commission forward the A-95 on this project to Metro-Council with the Commission's recommendation for approval noting the fact that it does not meet the needs of the larger families and that this Commission strongly urges the addition of fifteen, three-bedroom apartments. Upon a vozce vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. Ms. Shea thanked Mr. Kahn for attending the meeting. Mr. Y.ahn stated he would like to come l;ack when they re2ch thaC point in time to talk abcut how to structure an advertising pro�rnm for the people who wnuld be c!ost in need of these units. OTHER ]3USINESS: Mr. Belgum stated that about two weeks ago, he had met with Mayor Nee and presenCed him with the ideas N.r. Belgum�had presented to the Commission that maybe a city gouernment at the stage of development that Fridley is should begin to look at some of the non-physical, non-traditional potential functions of city gover:w�ent, which would include things like developing a better human relations climate in the city, promote communications inside the city, somehoa letting the Ciey develop as an organism with neighborhoods as organisms, communities as organisms, so that the whole eould be articulated and become a coeunanity. What made Mr. Belgum decide to do something was when Mr. James Hill, Public Safety Director, stated that Fridley has no self-identity. Mayor Nee stated he agreed and he and the City Council have tried to do many things to to try to improve the quality of human life. Mr. Belgum tallced briefly �aith Mr. Ed Fitzpatrick and Dennis Schneider, with others and, of course, this Comnission, and there caas general agreement that there is a need for better intercommunications in the City of Fridley. There has been growing dis- affection with the Sun Newspaper. � . �.. Mr. Belgum introduced Mr. Greg Breining cahom he had known quite a few years ago as a journalist and whom he had �aorlced with on the Fridley Sun for about eight months, Mr. Breining knows Fridley, he has grown up here, has attended the University, and has a degree in Journalism.. Mr. Breining has worked on the I .''.� HUMAN RESOURCES COMMiSSiON MEETIA'G DECEMBER 2, 1976 PAGE 7 Minnesota Daily in several positions including management. He has had a lot of excellent experience. He has done some free lance writing, he has written for the volunteer magazine for the conservatio�t department, and he has said he is interested in the problem of a newspaper in the City of Fridley. Mr. Breining stated that one proposal is that of a city-owned newspaper. He said a journalist's first reaction to the idea of a city-owned newspaper is one of panic. It is a little frightening to think that you are going to put that independent voice under the auspices of local government. On the other hand, it is a very intriguing idea, especially where a commercial paper such as the Sun Newspaper has failed to maintain professional standards or has failed to give voice to that community or provided that community with any identiCy. It is very interesting to have a newspaper that is owned by the people and for the people that is demociatic in its foundation as we11 as its ideals. Mr. Breining stated he had talked to a number of people at the University about this. One particular person had pointed out a report done in 1947 called "� Free and Responsible Press" by the Hutchins Co�ission. This Commission was funded Uy Time, Ine., which is quite a conservative foundation; but, nevertheiess, they came up with some rather liberal ideas in talking about the role of the press and how it could be funded. One of the things they talked about was a publicly funded press, not to displace the private publisher, but to supplement private newspapers because those newspapers just weren't doing the ;ob. There have been a couple of p*ebiems with newspapers recently. First is that recently ae have seen a grzat conccntration of press ownership with very few publishers owning many papers as well as ra3iu and television stations. It is no longer possible to crank up a pr.intin� press i�i the basement and turn out our own newspapers so, in effect, cae are relying on a vcr,� small number of people to represent the people's voice in the comm:inii-y. Of ccurse, these few publishers have their own invested interest--they are in business to make money. Secondly, the news has become an institution. As the Hutchin.s Comc�issior. noted, "The need of the consumer to have adequate and uncontaminated roental food is such that he is under the duty to get it; and because of this duty, his interest acquires the stature of a right. It becomes legiti.maCe to speak of the moral right of inen to the news they can use." Another problem of publishers Sl.'TV1Tlg suburbs such as Fridley is aggravated by the fact that a suburban newspaper is often not very profitable. The.community struggles to maintain its own identity but often Loca1 issues do not seem as important to many people as regional issues, since cr,ey buy the newspaper of a larger parent city such as the Miruieapolis Star and Tribune. So,private publishers have a problem in serving a community such as Fridley. The Sun has not been entirely successful. It is not a Fridley paper; they have a Fridley front page, and the rest of the paper is a Fridley-Columbia Heights-Slaine, Coon Rapids paper. Mr. Breining stated one of the things to think about is setting up the paper using some sort of subsidy from the city government or perhaps getting the city involved in printing its own papers. It's a very dangerous idea in some respects because you do have that conflict, but it has worked in similar situations; although, from what he has been able to find out, no city has tried to do exactly that. One example is the Minnesota Daily, where there is one body, tUe University of Minnesota, that publishes a newspaper. This newspaper is often quite critical of its parent �,. �.i� �. . . � � . HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION,MP:�TING DECENIBER 2 1976 YAGE 8 organization and m�nages to get away with it. Considering the sorts of people = working on it, it does a very good job oi presenting the need and provides the f identity of the University. He thinks a city could do something similar, being ? careful when it began to ensure that the city fathers (City Council, Mayor) did not have anything to do with the editorial comment. Zn the case of the Minnesota Daily, they have set up a"publications board". If you were to do something like this in Fridley, you could have a publications board that is elected with a member from, say, every nine precincts. Perhaps, on this board you could have the editor � of the paper and a member of the Council.Al1 other people would not be connected � with city government in any way. One of the responsibilities of this board would Ue to set very broad policies of. the_paper and do the hirir.g and firing. The City Council would do nothing to set general policy and could not hire or fire anyone. Their responsibility would be setting the budget. In the case of the Dai1y, it is supported by 25 % from the University and the rest from advertising, so the financial base of the paper is split so that no one interest group has absolute r.ontrol over the paper. Mr. Breining thinks the city could do something very similar to this. He did talk to a Proiessor Everett Dennis, who said He has not heard oi anything Iike this done but thought it was intriguing. Zt would probably get a lot of attention, maybe even national attention if tried. Mr. Breining stated he was here simply to propose the idea and see if it is of interest. He ` admitted he was a little hesitant at first, butthinks it is interestang and thinks it could work. Mr.'Bel.gum stated he would like to pick �p Mr. Bre?ning's idea that there is a danger in putting a newspaper next- to the political structure; Uut, democracy is � supposed to be an oagoing expression of the majority. The problem saith the election � system is that it isn't an �ngoing expression of the liyes of the people; it is a � biennial expression or a quadrennial expression and limited to picicing between t:ao people. The more he thought about this, he thinks it is in har.mony with the � intentions of the people in electing the mayor and councilmen. It seems to liim that the electioii of officers would, upon ref:ectioa, really welcome an organ that was not owned Uy a private organization but was owned by the people who elected � it. Ms. Shea stated she can see this coming under the goals and objectives. Mr. Scott stated he is very intrigued with the idea of a city-owned newspaper. Personally, he feels that this community could support a weekly newspaper, and he thinks it could even support a daily newspaper. Iie said he is intrinued with the idea of this city trying to seek its identity. He said he particularly likes one aspect of tiiis cahole thing and that is the electoral process, using precincts or whatever. Mr. Belgum stated that if the Commission wants to think seri�usly about a public press, as Mr. Breining said, it is a novelty. News is a puUl'ic utility. He stated that they would malce news if they could interest the City of Fridley in a public press. It wouldn't have to slay public; it could very we11 move, if enough money and interest were put into it, to the status of a non-profit corporation. He said we have the possibility of Uacking away from the traditional model newspaper. HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION NIl'sETING DECLi'il3ER 2 197G PAGE 9 �� MOTION by Aarold Belgum, seconded by William Scott, that the Human Resources Coum�ission endorses in principle the following quote written Uy the Hutchins Conenission in its 1947 report entitled, "A Free and Responsible Press": "The need of the consumer to have adequate and uncontami.nated mental food is such that he is under the duty to get it; and because of tliis duty, his interest acquires the stature oE a right. It becomes legitimate to speak of the moral right of inen to the news they can use." Upon a voice vote, al.l voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. MOTION by William Scott, seconded by Grace Lynch, that the liuman Resources Cownission create a"Fridley Community Newspaper Froject Committee" and that Harold Belgum be appointed to this project couunittee to try to get assistance from other interested citizens. Upon.a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. NFr. Belgum stated he would like to thanlc Mr. Breining for bringing the Commission these ideas and for his remarkable excerpts from t?ie Hutchins Commission's 1947 report. ADJOURIvTi�IIiNT: MOTION by Grace Lynch, seconded by Harold Belgum, to adjourn the meeting at 9:57 p.m, Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously. , :� Respectfully submitted, r t�lid. c' ✓'fZ� Lynd�, Saba Recording Secretary