PL 12/21/1977 - 30482�
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CITY OF FRiDLEY
PLANNING C�MMISSION MEETING
DEC�.TT3FR 21 1977
CAJ�L TO ORDER:
Chairperson Harris called the December 21, t977, Planning
Gommission meeting to order at 7:37 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present;
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Shea, Bergman, Aarris, Peterson,
Schnabel, Langenfeld
None
Jerrold Boardman, City Planner
Ray Leek� Associate Planner
APPROVE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES: DECEMBER 7. �977
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MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Ms. Schnabel, that the
Planning Commission approve the December 7, 1977, Planning
Commission minutes.
Mr. Langenfeld indicated that the EnvirBnmental Quality
Commission had showed deep concern regarding tYie signalization
on 79th and East River Road. He referenced the fifth paragraph
on page 12 of the minutes� "Mr, Boardman said that the City had
asked for lighting at that intersection. He said that the County
said that there was no warrant for a traffic light at that znter-
section. He indicated that City felt that enou�h traffic was
�enerated at that point, Ae was relatively sure that traffic
lights would eventually be put at that intersection."
Mr. Langenfeld hoped that Mr. Boardman could assure the
Commission that a signa]. light would go at that intersection
some day.
Chairperson Harris pointed out that Anoka County was holding
up the signalization of that intersection,
Mr. Boardman said that Anoka County had to have proof of use
of that intersection before they put up signals. He felt sure
that the signal would be justified as soon as the median �vas
constructed on East River Road. He said that the residents
from the Meadow Run Apartments would have to use that intersection
in order to go South on East i.iver Road.
Mr, Langenfeld said that he merely wanted that point brought
to the attention of the Planning Commission because it was an
important item to the Environmental Quality Commission.
UPON A VOICE VOTE� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
The minutes were approved at 7:4Z F.M. ,
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - DECEMBER 21, 1977 Pa�e 2�
RECEIVE HUMAN RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES• DECEMBER 1, 1977
MOTION by Ms. Shea, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, that the ^
Planning Commission receive the December 1� 1977, minutes
of the Iiuman Resources Commission.
Ms. Shea indicated that Mr. Pete Fleming had told the members
of the Human Resources Commission that they would be handling
the R1 section of the Zoning Code at their next meeting.
Mr. Boardman said that when Staff was through reviewing the
Zoning Code, each of the member commissions would have a chance
to review the recommendations.
Mr. Boardman said that the Human Resources Commission would
not be handling the R1 Section of the Zoning Code at their
next meeting.
Mr. Peterson asked what the Commissioa's intent v�as in the
discussion regarding ��small" houses on P ages 1& 2 of the
minutes.
Ms. Shea said that according to the Metro Council, Fridley
would have to consider allowing smaller houses. She said
that the discussion was regarding exactly where these
��small" houses ( approximately 71�5 square feet) would be
located in the City of �'ridley.
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tTPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried -
unanimously. The minutes were received at 7:47 P.M.
1. CONTINUED: PARKS & OPEN SPACE PLAN
MOTION by Ms. Schnabel, seconded by Ms. Shea, that the discussion
on the Parks & Open Space Plan be limited to �one hour. IIpon a
voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously at
?:49 P.�.
Mr. Bergman asked if throughout the establishment of the
amount of park required, are statements made in the Plan
relateable back to some guidelines.
Mr. Ray Leek said that the Metro Council Sources, State
Recreational Council and the National Outdoor Recreation
Associati on Standards were all used as guidelines.
Mr. Bergman said that he felt the total park area in the City
of Fridley was above any recommended standard.
Mr. Leek said that the City of Fridley had much natural park
land but it was not all sensitive to the actual needs of the
residents of the City of Fridley.
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G COP�NfISSION MEETING - DECEMBER 21
Mr. Boardman said that the Park Facilities available to the
City of Fridley were not necessarily the facilities that
�ere needed by the residents of the City of Fridley� 13e sai.d
�"" that a lot of the Park land �vas providin� Re io
facilities and �vere not taking care of the citiz n needs in
Fridley�
Mre Leek said that ordinarily a community park system was
, operated primarily on the basis of three groups of
Mini Parks, Neighborhood Parks, and large Communit p�ks _
Y parks.
Mr. Boardman said that when the City of Fridley first started
developing the Park System� they made one big mistake in that
they looked at very large parcels of land for acquisition and
they failed to get park facilities that were needed in the
neighborhoods that tivould serve the neighborhoods. He said
what happened was that the City took what cvas left over in a
neighborhood development, and in some neighborhoods, that
wasn�t much property, He said what the city ended up with
was a large number of acres in large regional facilities that
. should really have been the responsibility of the County,
� Chairperson Harris said that Locke Park was in that category�
He explained that �vhen that property was deeded to the City of
, Fridley for park purposes there �ere some unusual restrictions
that �vere on that deeding,
was deeded by the Cassius LockeSEstateatotthe Cityeof�Fridle
and he said that it wasn�t really a deed but rather a form y
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Mr, Peterson said that there were certain things in that
deeding that if the City of Fridley di dn�t do, the land would
go to someone else to be sold.
Lo keParknto decideu hattthe�hat the City Attorney research
do regarding , Ci'�y of Fridley could legally
� the lan.d in I,ocke Park�
Mr. Boardman said that he wasn�t sure of how the deed read
but he said that perhaps there �vould be some means of re-
negotiating to allo�v the County to take over the maintenan.ce
of the Land. °
Chairperson Harris said that some problems could arise
in that (it was his understanding) the executors of the estate
would love to have the City of Fridley defaulto
Chairperson Harris again suggested that Mr.
together with the City Attorney to find out exactlyn get
"where things were at�� regarding the Locke Park land.
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PLANNING �OP�MISSION MEFTING - DECEMBER Z1, 1977 Pa�e 4
MOTION by Mr. T�ergman, seconded by Ms. Shea, to change the
wording on Page 25� #5 to read9 "5. Where possibl.e, land should
be acquired to improve �he usefulness of inadequate
neighborhood facilities.'i Upon a voice vote, all voting aye9
the motion carried unanimously at 8:04 P.M.
Mr. Peterson commented that he wanted reality to be put in
balance with �rhat tivas being put on paper. He pointed out that
even though City Council had said that they would consider taking
private land for park purposes under special conditi�ns, each
year they cut the P arks ancl Recreation Commission's budget so
lo�v that there would be nothiag there to do the land acquisition.
Mr. Boardman said that the Comprehensiee P arks and Open Space '
Plan's purpose �as to try to spell out �vhat exactly �t-.�aas'n�eded
and what direction should be taken.
Mra Peterson didn�t feel that a Comprehensive Plan was needed
to �ell the people �rhat was needed. He said that the Parks
and Recreation Commission kn.ows what�s needed in the City of
Fridleyo �ie said that it was indicated in their submitte�
budgets v��hat they felt should be done. He felt that the peo�le
of Fricl�ey kno�r better than anyone else wha-t Fridley needs.
Iie said that if anyone wanted to know what �che City of Fridley
needs in regards to parks, all the;� �ould have'to do is go
back in the years and read the budgets that have been submitted
by the P arks and Recreation Commission.
Ms. Schnabel said that, maybe� if nothing else, this Plan may
get the members of the City Council to start thinking of the
total parks system.
Mr. Peterson said that more dollars would have to be budgeted
for if land was to be acquisitioned.
Chairperson Harris indicated to the members of the Commission
that Islands of Peace Park should not be a burden on t�e
Fridley Parks System. He said that originally that was to be
a Regional-type operation an.d it now appeared to be a City
operation.
Mr. Boardman said that it wouldn� t be long before it was
taken oQer by the Foundation with State backing, He said that
the Islands of Peace �vould bE self-sufficient very saon.
Chairperson Harris said that the maintenance was done by the
City of Fridley on the Islands of Peace.
Mre Boardman said that the normal naintenance �ras done by �ie
City oi Fridley and the other maintenance was by the Island
of Peace Foundation.
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PLANNING COMMI3�IOI1 ME�TING - DECEMBER 21, 1977 Pa�e 5
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Mr. Langenfeld said that once the Islands of Peace Park constructed
an additional building, there would be a breaking away of
"city assistan�e" because the building would be properly taken
care of by the board.
Mr. Boardman said that the State had granted $150,000 to the
Islands of Peace development. He said that application had
been made to the Metro Council for a"Regional, Special Use
Park" classification. He said that once the Park got the
Regional classification, it svould be put on the Metropolitan
Council Five Year Capital Improvement Program.
Chairperson Harris asked if the City was still using the Program
they had started, where they used trai.lers for �varming houses
at various parks.
Mr. Peterson said that the trailers didn�t work out. He said
that much vandalism had occurred. He said that about the only
buildings that could be used for warming house purposes were
concrete block buildings that had steel doors. He said that
any other type of building had too much trouble with eandalism.
Chairperson Harris asked why the City should provide facilities
for people who only seemed to destroy everything.
Mr. Bergman said that the ��standard answer�f tvas that the
destruction was usually caused by the minority of the to�al
users and he said that it �ras built for the majority of the users.
Mr. Boardman said that the more permanent structure that was
used� the less vandalism was involved. He said that the City
was trying to get the neighborhood people involved in the park
facilities and in their neighborhoods. He said that the more
the people were involved, the less vandalism was experienced.
He said that they were trying to find out exactly what the
"kids�� wanted in a park facility, how they bvould design the
parks� and how they felt they could. get better use of the park
facility. He said if that type of thing could be done, he was
sure the City �uould see vandalism decrease in the areas.
Ms, Shea said that the nicer a park facility building looked,
the less vandalism seemed to occur.
Mr. Peterson said that if the existing park facilities were
brought up to adequate standards in terms of equipment,
buildings, etc., the Parks and Recreation Commission had
estimated that the cost would be over one million dollars.
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PLANNING COMMISSION ME�TING - D�CPMB�R 21, 1g77 ' Pa�e 6
Mr. Leek said that there �Tas no real answer regarding vandali�m,
He said that that the only ideas they had were tvrofold:
1) the more attractive and useful the facility� the somewhat
less likely to be vandalized;
2) the more involved the knoam or potential users of that
facility are in the design and construction of it, the
less likely the vandalism,
He cited an example that in Minneapolis, the City Recreation
and P ark Planning Staff actually had kids design their own park.
He said they put together ideas of vrhat they thought the parks
should be and those ideas rrere implemented in the park. He said
that the particular park had close to zero vandalism.
Mr. Leek said that the planning staff had actually gone into the
schools and spent time vrith the kids to get their id.eas of vuhat
the kids actually wanted in a park facility.
Ms. Shea said that in general, people did not have faith in
governing bodies� She said that the people can be told that
they can design a park but those people won�t believe it to
be true. She said that their attitude tivas more tne idea that
the City vrould do vrhatever they ti�ant to do anytivay , so why
should they bother.
Mro Boardman said that they would develop a program that
�vould be a project at the teen-age level and that vrould be
handled directly through the schools.
Mr. Boardman said that enough inpu't had to be gotten so that
the end result tivauld be that the neighborhood would feel ihat
the park facilities tivere theirs'.
Mr. Peterson said that if there was a relatively small amount
of vandalism in the park facilites, that would prove that
it tivas a good concept.
Mr. Bergman suggested that someone from City Administration
get into the High Schools and solicit the help from the teen-
agers and le� them knovr that a certain amount of dollars
would be the tab for a park facility and �rould they help to
design it.
It was decided by the Planning Gommission that item #6 on Page
25 of the Parks and Open Space Plan ��ras acceptable as written.
Mr. Leek explained that the intent of #7 was that there was a
need in the City of Fridley to provide more intensive use
recreational areas. He said that "intensive use" �vere sports
that involved field and court games� i.e. baseball, football
tennis� soft�ball, etc.).
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PLI�NNING COMMISSION MEETING - D�CEMBER 21, 1q77 � Pa�e 7
Chairperson Harris said that there wasn�t anything in the area
.,of discussion that indicated vrho actually was using the parks.
He said that not everybody in the City used the parks and in
the recreational areas not everyone that used the facilities
were residents of the City. He asked if that point had every
been considered.
Mr. Peterson said that that aspect had been researched. He
said that in all the high-use parks in the City� the person
using the park facility had to either live in Fridley, work
in Fridley, or attend church in Fridley. If the person didn�t
qualify in one of the three stipulations, then they did not
use the fields. He said that teams had been asked to leave
the parks or leagues because they didn�t fit into one of the
three catagories,
Mr. Peterson said that most of the Programs in the City of
Fridley tivere made up o� 99.g'� Fridley people. He said that
Locke P ark differed in that only 20/ of its users were
residents of the City of Fridley. He said that 80'� of the
use of Locke Park was by people that did not live, work, or
attend church in Fridley. ,
Mro Boardman said that the KEY issue should be that Fridley
sh�ould be in the business of providing parls facilities for
the residents of Fridley.
Chairperson Harris suggested giving the Park property back
to the I,ocke Estate.
Chairperson Harris said that it should be taken care of
first as to the direction that should be followed regarding
Locke P ark. . :
Mr. Peterson asked that item #7 on Page 25 of the Parks and
Open Space Plan be retivritten.
Mr. Boardman said that he would see that #7 was re�rritten before
the next meeting.
ADJOUR1VNiENT
MOTION by Ms, Shea, seconded by Ms. Schnabel, to adjourn the
December 21� 19?7, Planning Commission meeting. IIpon a voice
vote� all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Chairperson Harris declared the meeting adjourned at 8:58 P,M.
Respectfully submitted,
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M ary e e C arhi 11
Recording Secretary
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