PL 01/25/1978 - 30485�,
CITY OF FRIDLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
--- JANUARY 25,i_ 1978
� t, LL�TO ORDER:
�i�airperson Harris
�ora�i.ssion meeting
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RGLL CALL•
Members Pr�sent:
Members Absent:
�thers Present:
called the J anuary 25, 1978, planning
to order at ?:37 P�M.
Shea, Bergman, Harris, Suhrbier, Schnabel,
Langenfeld
Peterson (represented by Suhrbier)
Jerr•old Boardman, City F�lanner
APPROVE PLANNINC COMMISSTON MINUTES• JpNiTARY 11, 1 78
MOTION by Ms. Shea,
Planning Commission
as t�rritten. Upon a
carried unanimously.
1,
seconded by Mr. I,angenfeld, that the
approve the January 11, 1978, minutes
voice vote, all voting aye, the motion
1 L�-111, ar �-o /�, r�s �urLx�vl�xlc:Aa Y�1� r'KIDLEY CITY
CODE, SECTTON z05e131, 3, E, TO ALLC�W THE CONSTRUCTION OF
� SUPERAMERICA STATION CONVENIENC� STORE, ON LOTS 27, 28,
29 �d 309 BLOCK 4, HAMILTO�T'S ADDITION TO MECHANICSVILLE,
THE S��E BEIT�G 5667 UNIV�RSIT� AVENtT� NE
PIIBLTC HEI�RING OPEN
Mre Boardman said that mu�h discussion had taken place at
the previous meeting. He said that Superan�erica had some
revised plan�s ior �he Superameri�a Station Convenie�nce Store.
�Tso Schnabel asked why it was necessary for Superamerica to
request a Special Use Permit.
M�. Boardman said �hat the station previously located on the
lot had been at that location before Special Use Permits were
required for c�as Station operations,
Mre Aiichae� Ho].t and Mr. Timothy Kortrem were present at the
meeting rerreserting Superamerica.
Mr. Ha1t sho�ved the Commission a revised plan for the
Superamerica Station Convenience Store� He indicated the changes
th.a�t r��d been made to the drivew�ys servi.cing the station and
tha� by �oving the proposed building approximately 15 feet they
�rere able to provide for the required 15 �aarking spaces as well
as set up a feasible route the gasoline trucks cauld use so that
t�e trucks would not have to go through the residential area.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUARY 25, 1977 Pa�e 2 ��
Mr. Bergman said it was an improved plan and that it was much
better than the previousl plan.
Mr. Holt said that he had talked to Superamerica management.
about providing a sign for Ms. Mathisen (3t�8-57 Ave NE)
and they indicated they would provide her with a sign that
would indicate that her drieeway was a PRIVATE DRIVEV'7AY and
that it should not be used. �
Ms. Schnabel asked if there would be signs at the entrances
and egresses that would indicate entrance only or exit only
and if so how would the signs be posted.
Mr. Holt said that the driveway to the rear of the lot would
have a sign that �vould indicate "exit only, do not enter".
He also said that there �ould be directional arrows on the
blacktap.
Ms. Schnabel asked if there would be additional signage in
the ground that would indicate exit only.
Mr. Holt said that they would have signs in the ground.
Ms. Schnabel asked i.f any signs would indicate such things as
�'no left turns" or "no right turns�� or "right turns only1°.
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Mr. Hol� said that they would p�-ovide such signs if the Commission r"�
felt it v�ould be necessary. He didn't think they would be
necessary in that the patterns would already be established
because of the island that was located in 57th Avenue.
Mr. Boardman sa.id that it had been suggested at the previous
meeting that at the exit closest to the service lane and
57th Avenue there would be a sign inclicating "Exit to
University Avenue�� with an arrow that would direct the traffic
around the station.or around the area.
Mr. Holt said that Superamerica would comply with that request.
Chairperson Harris asked if the station would be open 24 hours
per day, every day of the week.
Mr. Tim Kortrem said that it was being discussed that the proposed
Superamerica Station Convenience Store tieould be open 24 hours a
day. He said that the particular location had not been fully
established as yet. He said that actual business would dictate
the hours it would be opened.
Chairperson Harris asked what type of products would be dispensed
at the Superamerican Station Convenience Store.
Mr. Holt said that the Store would handle convenience items such
as packaged food, rolls, milk, bread. He said it would handle
no fresh produce. Iie said they tivould have bulk oil and some
automobile related products.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUARY 25� 1978 Pa�e 3
Mr. Carl P aulson o� 43o-NE 5?th Place wanted to submit a
supplement to the ori�inal petition that had been signed
-°� by the residents in the neighborhood. He said that the
petition itself dealt with mostly the human aspects and
that the supplement petition dealt with property owners.
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Mr. Paulson said that it was an Impact Statement which �vas a
supplement to the petition, re: Superamerica Request.
"The follov�ing criterion .re�resents a mutual
correlative to tne contents of the aforesaid
petitiono
The petition deals vrith matters serving jointly
both property owners and residents on a lease
bas;�s or otherti�rise enjoined.
The follo�aing are parts or elements, maybe not
all of them, you will be considering conjuctively:
I. First of all: Is there a need?
II. Reduction of real estate values,
III. Deviation from previous use.
IV. The matter of saturation (used in�the
broadest sense)
Vo And an overall adverse affect."
Mr. P aulson said that the people in the area were adverse to
the night-time operation.
Chairperson Harris said that a petition had been submitted
to the Commission. He said that it was a petition to the
Planning Commission, City of Fridleyo
"�'Je, the signatories to this Petition do hereby request
that an all-night operation applied for by the applicant
in �he name of Superamerica Station Convenience Store, be
rejected.
1Ve submit our request, in part, on the basis of six pages
of criteria calling attention to pollution hazards and how
to curtail them. Peace and composure are closely related
to restful sleep.
4Ye summarzly reject
by word or other�vise
gasoline stations in
any notion that we be held responsible
for the ridiculous overbuilding of
years past.
We further reject any suggestion that fence� �va].ls bvith
ballasts can serve as adequate protectian, agaa.nst polluted
particles movin� lvith the �vind in varied directions, and
noise pollutiona
We reserve the right to seek redress through the courts,
should this become our only recourse.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUARY 2�, 1978 Pa�e 4 '�- ,
We reject installations of added lighting such as might
adversely affect nearby residents•at times vrhen they look
forv�ard to a time of restful sleep. Night time was made
for sleep! �
Also, we are aware that hold-ups and shoot-outs cannot be
ruled out around an. a11 night operation.
�1e are opposed to added traffic after-hours, such as would
be of convenience to inconsiderate drivers who are prone
to rev-up motors, added to quick starts, sometimes coupled
with loud voices.
We want nothing added to overall late night problems,
such as are experienced along well traveled roads, such
as University and 57th Avenue going eastvrard.
Finally, �ve reject the proposed operation as we know it.��
Chairperson Harris said that there were 39 names on the petition.
MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Ms. Schnabel, that the
Planning Commission receive the petition and the Impact Statement.
IIpon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr, Paulson said that it had been clearly stated and that the
people who signed the petition had done so with�the enthusiasm
that went with the acceptance of the idea of rejecting the proposed.
Mro Gordon Jorgenson of 2225 Chalet Urive said that he ov�ned
the property located at 5644 Fourth Street NE. He said that his
property contained a seven-unit apartment building. He said that
the people in his building vaere very much against the proposed
Superamerica Station Convenience Store. He said that they mainly
opposed the 2!� hour operation. He said that the points they
had indicated they tivere opposed to were the added noise from the
traffic; the increase of cars using the parking lot as turn-around
area; and the people �vho lived on the West side of the building
were concerned about the lighting, especially during late night.
He said that he persona].ly was against the proposed operation
and that people in his building had also indicated their opposition
by signing the petition.
Chairperson Harris asked ii there had been traffic problems
previously when Phillips 66 had owned the building.
Mr. Jorgenson said that it had.added to the traffic in the
area; but he said the people were mostly against the 24-hour
operation.
Ms. Schnabel said that if the petitioner was allo�ved to proGeed
with his plans, the Commission could establish hours that the
operation could be open; she wanted to kno�v if the people in
Mr. Jorgenson's building had a preference to the hours it could
be opened. �
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b� PLANAIINC COMMISSION M�rTIPdG - JANIII�RY 2�, 197$ Pa�e 5
Mr. Jorgenson said th�.t he had delivered the petition to the
,�`'� people in his building as it was written. He said they seemed
�o be basically concerned about the late night noise and the
add_it3or�a1 lighting all through the night.
Ms. Schnabel said that Superamerica had stated they intended
to hav� the lighting directed downwards and away'from the
adjacent properties.
Mr. Jorgenson said that the lighting could be improved using
that manner but that the problem wouldn't be eliminated.
Ms. Grace Mathisen of 31�8-57th Place NE said that she didn't
have much to add to i�hat she had stated at the previous
meeting. She said that it wouldn't make any difference
whether the store rras a night or day operation, the traffic
Urould be much greater in the area than before. She said that
the lights of the operation weren't just the lights located on
the property but would involve the lights of the traffic.
Mr. Langenfeld read from the Code all the businesses that
could be established on the lots in questiona He said that
the location �=ras zoned C-2. He felt that a much less desirable
situation could be established at that location than a
Superamerica Station Convenience Store�
�, Mr. P aulson said that Mro Langenfeld had made a good point
but that he felt the people in the vicinity did have a
right to say ti�rhat could be estabiished at that location.
Mro Jorgeason said that the location v�as probably too small
for many of the other uses that had been indicated by
Mr. I,angenfeld. He said that it seemed that the people in
the vicinity �vanted an opportunity to listen to a proposal
for some other type of operation.
Mr. Holt said that in regards to the all-night operation
Superamerica did operate same of the stations on established
hours rather than 24 hours. He said that they would agree
to keep the same business hours as the other businesses in the
area. He pointed out that the property was zoned commercial
and they had presented plans for a commercial operation.
Mr. Bergman asked if Superameric tivould be interested in the
location if the Commission tivould indicate a stipulation that
closing times tivould have to correspond to the closing times
of the other businesses in the area.
Mr. Holt said that they tivould be interested.
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PI,ANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUARY�25� 1978 Pa�e 6 ,
Mr. Boardman asked if Superamerica planned to have a lighted
canopy.
Mr. Holt said that they ��ould have a lighted canopy but that �
no lighting �vould spill from the operation. He said all the
lighting tivould be directed dovJnwards.
R�r. Boardman asked horr Y�igh the proposed fencing would be.
Mr. Holt said they cvould have a six foot fence plus a hedge.
Mr. Boardman asked ho`v high the lights of the operation would
be.
Mr. Holt sai.d that they would be 13 feet.
Mr. Jorgenson didn't believe that a six foot fence would protect
the area from 13 foot lights. He also doubted the statement that
no lighting �vould spill from the operation. He also questioned
the traffic-f1oUr diagram.
Mr. Boardman said that at the previous meeting there had been
concern regarding gasoline trucks as far as how they would ingress
and egress from the propertyo He said that in order for the trucks
to service the station and not have the trucks go iato the
residential area that the diagram indicated the route the trucks
would be directed to takeo He said that the gasoline trucks were
owned by Superamerica and that the drivers could be told that
it was the route they had to use.
Mre Boardman said that Superamerica would do some signing to
indicate to the automobile traffic the desired directions.
Ms. Schnabel asked if the Commission could stipulate the route
the trucks servicing Superamerica would have to utilize.
Mr. Boardman said it vras the Commission's Option.
Mr. Paulson explained to the Commission that Ms. Mathisen's
house had been built while Fridley was a Township; therefore,
he said that it did not have the normal setback from�the street.
He said that her garage was situated almost right next to the
curbing and her house right next to the garage. He said that
she was really located very close to the proposed business.
He wondered if the minority had as much rights as the majority.
He said that the distance from her house to the proposed
establishment had to be considered in the issue.
Mr. Paulson felt that the air pollution in the area was already
existent vrithout adding to the problem. ,
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_� PLANNING COMMISSION M�� ING - JANUARY 25� 1978 Page 7
Mr. Paulson said that there was already too �uch noise in the
area. He didn't believe that a fence did an.ything to control
i�, the noise, He said that the noise seemed to merely "bounce�'
over the fence. .
Mr, Paulson said it �vould behoove everyone to consider all
the aspects involved,
Mr. B.oardman asked how the people svould feel about the
o�eration if it ��rould close at nights at the same time as
the othea� businesses in the area.
Mr. Paulson said that they have ].ived with it. He said that
they didn't like it. He felt that it would depend upon the
proximity to the operation.
Ms. Mathisen indicated that if the operation closed at the
same time as the other businesses in that area vrould most
likely help the traffic situation. She said they vrouldn't
have as much as night lighting or noise and that ti�7culd be
a positive aspect, She said that it still wouldn't eliminate
the traffice conjsstion and noise in the area, She felt that
the area she lived in �vas not a regular situation as far as
traffic, noise, and pollution ti�vere concerned.
Mr. Holt said that the Superamerica Sta.tion Con�renzence Store
would not generally add to the trafiic in the area. He said
'1 �hey ���auid exist on the tra.ffic that irlas already present in
� the area. He didn't feel that they would measureably increase
the traffic.
Mr. Jorgenson inclicated that he would drive out of his way
to go �to a Superamerica Station v�hen that sta-tion drap�ed its
gasoline prices. He said thaW �t those times, there ��vould
be cars lined up at all the pumps and five or six vraiting,
(He was referring to a Supera�erica Station located at
50th & Central Avenue), He said that t�vhen the cars were lined
up at the Station that the cars tivould overflow onto to 50th,
causing conjestion in the area. He said that since he �vould go
out of his way for gasoline, that most likely other people
would also. He felt that Superamerica did measureably add
to the traffic conjestion in the immediate vicinity.
P�re Tim I{ortrem e�:plained to the Commission the basic Super-
America Station gas pricing policy. He said that they try
to keep th�ir gasoline prices competitive to 'the other stations
in the area. He said that Superamerica Stations basically trie°�
to live oif the existing �raffic f1oUr of the areas, but he sa.id
that there ma.y be customers that tiTJOUld drive out of their way to
patronize the establisllments. Howev�r, he felt that the
majority of people did not dx�ive too far out of their way to
buy gasoline.
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� MOTION by Ms. Shea, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, to close the
Public Hearin�o Upon a voice vote, aIl voting aye, Chairman
Harris cl�clared th� Public Hearing cldsed at 8:37 P.M:
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUARY�25. 197$ Pa�e 8 �.�
MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Ms. Schnabel, that the
Planning Commission recommends denial of the request for a
Special Use Permit, SP #77-17, by Superamerica: Per Fridley �
City Code, Section 205.131, 3, E, to allow the construction of
a Superamerica Station Convenience Store, on Lots 27,28,2g and
30, Block 4, Hamilton's Addition to Mechanicsville, the same being
5667 University Avenue Northeast.
Mr. Langenfeld said that the reasons for his motion to deny were:
1. There had been 39 people that had petitioned against
the request.
2. In regards to the substantive requirements of a
Special Use Permit must be subject to�certain
conditions and the conditions must conform to the
follov�ing standards:
. To protect the Public iiealth, Safety, and
Welfare
. To av+aid traffic conjestion or hazard or other dangers
. To promote conformity of a proposed use �rith
the character adjoining property and uses.
Ms. Schnabel said that she believed the Superamerica Station
Convenience Store could very likely generate additional traffic
in the area even though they had stated they didn't feel they
would measureably increase the traffic in the area. She said
that this point was a point that tivas contrary to the petitioners n,
of the neighborhood.
Mr. Bergman said that while the ordinance provides for gasoline
stations OP retail stores in the zoning of the property, what
Mas being requested v�as a combination of gasoline and retail.
He said thai even though it was.a fine point it was pertinent
because of the amount and type of traffic and the operati.ng
hours that would be involved.
Mso Shea said that she vaas against the motion because she felt
that Mr. Holt had done ever.ythin� he could to try to satisf.y
the neighbors and agreeing to any stipulations that the Commission
had felt �vould be necessary.
IIPON A VOICE VOTE, Mr. Bergman, Ms. Suhrbier, Ms. Schnab�l,
and Mr. Langenfeld voting aye; Ms. Shea and Mr. Harris voting
nay, the motion carried.
Chairperson Harris said that the recommendation to deny would
go to City Council on February 6, 19?8,
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2. PUIILIC HE�RING: RE�UEST FOR � SP�CIAL USE PERMIT SP
-01 BY T�EIdARD C��H;'JI�Y LUt�IBER: PER FRIDLEY CITY
CODL, SLCTIOPI 205. 101 , 3, N, TO ALLON THE DL'�IELOPMENT
!~ OF A 5,000 SOUARE I'OOT GARDEN CENTER IN THEIR PARKING
LOT, ON LOT 9, AUDITCR'S SUBDIVISION N0. 94, THE SAME
BEING 5351 CENTRAL AVENUE 1VE
M�TION by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Ms. Suhrbier, to open the
Ptiblic Hearing. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, Chairman
Harris declared the�Public Hearing open at 8;44 P.M.
MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Mr. Bergman, to receive
the correspondence from Hagerty, Candell and Lindberg
attorneys at law, regarding Mendard, Inco and the drav�ings
regarding Mendard, Inc. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye,
the mation carried unanimously.
Mr. Boardman saici that the Special Use Permit vras being
requested for an outdoor garden center to be located in
the Menard�s parking lot. He said that Menard�s was attempting
� to decide if they wanted to opera�e a garden center or noto
He said that the garden center ti�rould initially be an experiment
to see if it tivould or would not be to their advan.tage.
Mr. Boardman explained the different dratiwings that had been
received by the Commission. He said that his suggestion to
�Ienard� Inco rlas to place �the proposed ga-rden center next to/
along side the main Menard Cashway Lumber building,
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Mr. Charles Seeger representing Menard Cashway Lumber said
tha.t the Special Use Permit �vould be to enable them to sell
trees, shrubs and like items since they did carry lawn and
garden supplies in their main store. He said that initial.ly
it �vould be an experiment to determine if the garden center
would.be a profitable venture for Menard, Inc. He said that
the garden center yvould be constructed neatly. He said they
vrould have bark chips on the ground with a split rail fence
completely around the center. He said they tivould sell trees
and shrubs, etc. and he didn't feel anything in the center
would detract from the looks of the property.
Chairperson Harris asked if the garden center would be next
to the buildingo
Mr. Seeger explained on �Ehe dradvings tivhere the garden center
would be located. He said it �vould be located in front of
the north side of the main building. He said that the garden
center ��lould be app�oximately 5,000 square feet.
Ch�irperson Hzrris asked if the garden center tivould abut the
adjacent property�
Mr. Seeger said that that the garden center �vould not touch or
join or border on any adjacent property.
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PL,_ IN� ISSION MEETING - JANU�IRY 25� 1978 Page 10
Ms. Schnabel asked if the area would have additional lighting.
Mr. Seeger said that there would be no additional lighting used
in the Garden Center.
Ms. Schnabel asked if the garden center lvould have some type of
greenhouse.
Mr. Seeger said that they would decide on the greenhouse only
if the decided to keep the garden center operating. He indicated
that for the present time, Menard, Inc. was only looking at the
Garden Center from an experimental standpoint.
Mr. Bergman asked if the Garden Center would be strictly a
seasonal operation.
Mr. Seeger said it tivould be a seasonal operation. It would
operate from Approximately April 1 through approximately
the middle of July.�
Mr, Bergman asked if the ordinance specifically addressed this
type of situation in the Special Use Permit.
Mr. Boardman said
materials must be
materials v�as not
Permit.
that it stated that all outside sale of
completely screened� If the outside sale of
screened it would have to have a Special Use
Mr. Bergman asked that the Ordinance regarding screening be read.
Mr. Boardman read the ordinance that pertained to screening.
It read that a special use permit vras required if the
enterprise had merchandise in the open and not under the cover
of the display station.
Mr. Seeger said that the initial objective was to test market
the program.
Mr. Boardman indicated that ti��ith the addition of the 5,000
square foot garden center9 the Menard, Inc. tivould have adequate
parking facilities.
Ms. Mary I,. Mathe�vs of 1259 SkYtrrood Lar.e N.E;, explained that
Menards had origina113� proposed that the product lines they
proposed �*rould have been consumer oriented such as furniture,
carpet, domestic paneling, cabinets, millwork, appliances and
remodeling material. They had intended to be strictly cash and
carry and they did not intend to service large contrac�ors.
She then went on and explained all the changes in policy that had
since occurred on the property as vrell as revie�ved correspondence
that had been tvritten regarding the property. She �vanted to kno�v
�vhy the public was notiv being requested to appear at a public
hearin� when they had never been as��ed for their input on aIl
the other actions that had been taken. �'�t this point, Mso Matheivs
presented pictures to the Commission shoi�rin� exactly what the
Men�rd operation lool�ed like from her property. The pietures
depicted also the screen that ti�ras presently being used on the
�property.
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PLANNING COMMISSION M�L'TING - JANUARY 25� 1978 _ P a�e 11
Ms. Mathe���s vranted to knovr tivhy the nei�hborhood's input tvas, being
asked regarding the installation of a�arden center ti�rhen they
� weren�t asked w�.en the ��huge" lumber expansion t.00� place. -
P�ir. Boardman said that it ti�r�s mainly because of the nature of
the request for the garden center where merchandise tivould be
in the open and not under cover of the display sho�vroom. He
er,plained that Menards was required to apply far a Special Use
P ermit to have such an outside display.
Mr. Boardman said that Menards was allobved to have storage
of inerchandise solely intended to be retailed. The code read,
"all rativ materials, supplies, finished goods, semi-finished
products and equipment, not including motor vehicles, shall be
in an enclosed building or screened on all sides from public
vie�r by fence or other approved screening tivhich tivas two feet
higher than the h�.ghest item to be stored��. Mr. Boardman
explained that the above �rras an allowed usage. He said that as
the garden center r�ould not be totally screened► it-required
a special use permit. He said that one of the requirements of
the Special Use P ermit was the notification of property ovrners
within 200 feet of the property,
Ms. Mathe�rs felt that she needed legal consultation and asked
that the �ity Council not take action until she�had the time
to do so. She explained that the problems tix�itiz the r2enards
opera�ion had gone on for over 22 yPars and even though Menards
,s�ay they tirant to be �� friends�� they have not done one thing that
� the� said they tit►ould do at all the meetings they have had.
Ms. Mathet�rs indicated that Mayor Nee had suggested at one of
t?ae meetings that had been held �rith t�ienards, that a density of
use study be c.onducteds She v��anted to request that �hat study
be done.
Chair�erson Harris explai.ned that the action at �his time was
to recommend to City Council and that the final action tvould
be taken by the City Council. He said that there would most
likely be time bet���een the action taken by the Planning Commission
and the time it v�ent to City Council for Ms� Mathel'rs to get
legal consultation,
Mr. Boardman sai.d that if the Planning Commission sent their
recommendation onto City Council, it would be handled by City
Council at the February 6, 1978 meeting. He said that If
Ms, riatheti�rs felt that tfouldn't be enough time to adequately
prepare for le,al counsultation, he suggested she bring it up
to the City Council at that time for their consideration.
He said that final action ���ould not n�cessarily have to be
tal�en on February 6, 197g,
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PLANNING COMMISSION M�� ING - JANUARY 2, 1978 Pa�e 12
Mr. Bergman said that ttivo things ti�rere really being discussed.
One rras the Special Use Permit request��vhich the Ordinance
does provide for under certain conditions. He said it was �,
the matter of tivhether or not the zoniag code or the city
ordinance provide for the type of thing that the p�titioner
was requesting to do. He said that the other thing being
discussed �ras the question of neighborliness on the part
of Menards where there was alti�rays background.of citizenry
complaints and an impression of lack of attention by Menards.
He said that ei�ht separate letters had been included in the
package that the Planning Commission had before them
regarding nuisa.r�ce type subjects. He said that he had the
imPression that the neighbors are basically upse�with
Menards in general.
Chairperson Harris said that it was his assumption that
it �vas much ��deeper" than the fact of Menard's neighborliness,
Mr. Boardman said that Menards was located in a C2S zone.
He explained that the inside operation tivas definitely a
retail operation. He said that what made this particular
operation questionable for this particular zoning was the
outside lumber operation that they titrere presently involved in.
Hov��ever, he said that the outside lumber operation was the
accessory use of the storage of inerchandise solely intended
to be retailed by a related and established principle use.
Ms. Mary E. Cooney of 759-113th Avenue NE said thai she �'"�
owned Lot 8 of Auditor's Subdivision No. 94. She said that
she tivas definitely against Menards having a garden center.
She said that she had had so much trouble <<rith Menards. She
said she had all their trash on her property. She said she
had hired someone to cut the grass on her property because �
Menards had complained her grass needed cutting. She said that
the person she hired ti=�ouldn't cut the grass because he tivas
afraid oi ti�recking his motver on all the trash that was on the
property. She said that instead of Menards having their snow
hauled a�qay, they dump all the snow on her property. She said
that Menards refused to pay her rent for the property. She said
she sent them bills but that they totally ignored them. She
said she didn't ���nt any more garbage and the garden center would
only increase the garbage already present at that location.
Chairperson Harris po�.nted out that the Garder� Center would not
abut her property.
Ms. Cooney said it didn't matter. She cvas still against any
garden center going in at that location. She didn't like the
idea that she had to pay taxes on her property and then Menards
is able �co use it free of charge. She said that the Menards
operation �vas already a dirty operation and they didn't need
a garden center that tivould only add to the trash problem.
_ R�`_�
PLANNING COP�IISSIOId MEETING - JANIIARY Z�, 1978 Pa�e 1
Ms. Suhrbier indicated that in a letter dated April 20, lg7?,
'Mr. L�wrence F. Menard had said he had offered Ms. Cooney the
� proposition that he tvould keep her strip of land picked up, mowed
and maintained short of watering and landscaping.
!"'1
�,
Ms. Cooney said that Menard's couldn't keep their own property
clean and she ti7anted them to leave Yrer land alone. She said
that she v�ould. gladly take care of her property once they
removed their trash from it. She asked if there v�eren't any
codes to take care of the trashy conditions of Menard's.
Chairperson Harris said that some�thing would be attempted to
take care of the problems.
Ms. Cooney said she woulci give Fridley a chance to do something.
She said that if they didn't want to have Menard�s clean up
their property she tivas going to contact the State Health Department.
She said that she did not �rant any garden center going in on
their property. She suggested they put the garden center inside
their building if they feel they have to have one. She said that
she had enough rubbish to clean up from the� now, and she didn't
want a garden center in the parking lot that would only add to
the trash problem.
P�ir. Ron �ang of 1278 Skywood Lane brought up the point that there
was already so much traffic problems in the area at present. He
said that shortly work tivas to be started at the intersection of
53rd and Central, He said that the higilway v��rk itself will add
�;o the confusi�n, without also trying to experi.ment with a
garden cen�er. He said that if Menard's really Manted to attempt
to experiment ��ith the possibility of a Garden Center, they should
wait until that intersection improvement was completed. He said
that they really wouldn't get an accurate study while that
construction was taking place.
Mr. Lang suggested that a Special Use Permit not be granted
at .this time. Iie felt they shauld wait until that intersection
update �vas completed.
Ms. Schnabel �vas concerned that Menard's did not properly maintain
the Fire Lane in front of their building. She also said that
they did not have� delineated pedestrian path in front of the
buildinge
Mre Seeger said that during the winter they did have trouble
keeping the cars parked far enough away f.rom the buildinge He
pointed out that the garden center would not be in operation
in the winter, so it vrould not add to that particular problem.
He said that in �he summer people would be able to see the
lines� and usually abided by parking where it was indicated.
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PLANNING COMMISSION M��TING - JANIIARY 25� 1978 . P a�e 14
Mr. Seeger said that they did offer to clean up Ms. Cooney's
property of not only the debris that was from their operation ,�
but also any debris that would come off the freeway. He said
they had been told to stay off her property.
Mr. Seeger said that the PA Systems have been repaired to the
best of their ability. He said that the systems have been
turned a�ay from the neighborhoods. He said that they have
decreased their use of the paging system to about six times
a day compared to much more at this time last year.
Mr� Seeger said that Menard's had completely repaved the entire
rear section of the parking lot. He said they had put up
fences when they were requested to. He felt they had done
about a11 they could possibly do. He indicated that he could
appreciate the surrounding home o�rner�s feelings and he said
Menard's had tried to be reasonable people and get along �ith
the community.
Chairperson Harris asked if Mr. Seeger was prepared to discuss
some of the items that were mentioned in a letter from
H agerty, Candell and Lindberg, Attorneys at L aw. He said it
was his feeling that a Special Use Permit would probably compound
some of the problems. �
Mr. Seeger said he could discuss most of the situations.
Chairperson Harris asked vrhat the Garden Center's hours would be. '�
Mr. Seeger said they �vould be the same as the store hours. He
said it �rrould not be a late night operation.
Chairperson Harris said that it was stated that Menard's seemed
to be rather unbending in their position regarding some late
night operations involving drop-shipment of lumber.
Mr. Seeger said that they presently did not encourage shipments
arriving after 5:00 P.M. He said on occasion trucks did unload
their shipments after that time, hotiirever, he said that since
they had been requested to cease their late night drop-shipments
they had not done so. He said that Menard's crould continue to
hold such: evening trucking to a minimum so long as it was able
to do so and carry on its business
Chairperson Harris said that the PA System situation seemed
to be the greatest problem area.
Mr. Seeger said that the use of the PA System was decreased
considerably. He said everything has been done to the best
of their ability. He said it ti�ras not Menard's intention of
aggravate anyone. He mentioned that they did have a business
to run. .
PLANNITTG COMMISSION MPETING - J1�NUARY' 25, 1978 Pa�e 15 �
Mr. Lan�enfeld indicated that Mr. Seeger had always, in the past,
worl�ed ���ith the City to the best of his ability.
� t�Ir. See�er indicated that Menard�s had.not been drop shipping late
at �ii�;ht since the issue ���as made last spring. He said they
had rare, occasional problems ti;rhen they had a great deal of
merchandise being received from the distribution centers. He
said on such a given da�r, they have had up to five tractors
break dotim which tivould leave the remaining tractors to do all
the hauling. He said, that since people c�rere usually ivaiting
for the merchandise, the unloading would have to continue until
it �ras completed.
Mr. Seeger said he wasn't sure of what actually started the
problems or vrhen, but he said P�fenard� s dic� not svish to have
these problems on a continual basis. He said he was r�illin�
to crork with the people ancl the city to preserve the i�.tegrity
of the business.
Mr. Bergman referenced a letter dated April 19, 1977 to
Nre Larry Menard regarding refuse storage and collection.
He said that in the letter the Menard�s-Cash�vay Lumber�
company vras informed they �rerQ required to clean and maintain
the areas free of all �;he refuse found deposited there. He
said the let�er vras directed tav�ards the drainage ditch north of
the parking lot. He asked if it was Ms, Cooney's property that
the letter �vas rEferring toe
�"�,
NIs. Cooney�s brother said that it v�ras common for Menard's
to dump trash on that propert� all the timeo
Mr. Bergman said that P�Ir. Steven J. Olson, the Environmental
Officer� had directed P�Zenard�s to clean up that property, but
he understood the fact that Ms. Cooney did not �Rrant Menard�s
on her property.
Ms. Cooney commented that that ti�vas exactly tivhat she vaanted
Menard�s to do. She said she �vould cut her own grass �nd
maintain the property herself. She said all she vranted was
for Menarc��s to clean up all their trash �rom her property,
Mr. Seeger said that had been their original intent. He said
they had agreed to clean up the property and to maintain it
for Ms. Cooney a1so.
Ms. Cooney said she ivould �ake care of her otvn property; she
just ti�ranted them to kee� their trash off of the property,
NIr. Seeger said that those terms tiRtould be most agreeable to
Menard � s.
r"�
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PLANNING COP�MISSION MEETING - JANUARY 25� 1978� Pa�e 16.
Mr. Langenfeld pointed out that in the past, Menard's had not ,�
alway�s been cooperative tivith the City. He also.said that "if"
they ti7ent �vith Mr. Lang's suggestion he definitely agreed with
a complete study of fire lanes, traffic flotiv, general safety,
proper removal of rubbish, and proper clean-up of premises daily.
In other v�ords, he said, give Menard�s a means of sho�ring City
a genuine display of good faith.
Mr. Dennis L. Schneider� Seconcl�9ard Councilmember, indicated
that the problems �vith the Menard�s operation had been going on
for a long time. He said that one point in time there had been
a meeting bettiareen the residents anc� Mr. Menard at City Hall.
He saa.d that everyone came out of that meeting thinking that
an agreement had beea reached; however, notihing really changed.
He said that it v�as his general feeling that Menard's had
not been cooperative. He said they had not responded to the
correspondence that the City Attorney had sent them. He
believed ihat something did have to be done.
Chairperson Harris suggested that Mr. Schneider, Maqor Nee,
himself, and the neighbors have another meeting to attempt
to solve the problems involved with the situation at hand.
Mr. Seeger said that he �vas sure that some t3.rpe of agreement
could be reached at such a meeting, He said that there was
really no way they ti�rould be able to make 100% of the people �•-�
satisfied 100/ of the time.
Chairperson Harris said that it had come to �he point that
someth ing definitely had to be done. He said that he understood
that Mr. Seeger only ti�rorked for a Company and that there was
an expense point to consider as far as Menard's ti�ould go on
remeding the problems but he felt there tivas some common ground
that could be found to help solve the situations. He said he
didn't think Menard's zvanted the bad public relations, and the
City did not �rant any more of the �'mess�� to continue, and the
residents �fanted some solution to their problems.
Chairperson Harris asked if that t�rould be agreeable to the
residents that u�rere present at the meeting.
Ms. Mathe��s said that it �as most agreeable tivith her. She hoped
that the planned meeting �ould finally take care of the problems.
She said she r�ould Prait until after the meeting to decide if she
�vould still need legal consultation.
Mr. Lang pointed out that most of the nuisance complaints
�vere noi all costly items to correct. He said that they
basically needed cooperation.
F��INNING COMPRISSIOt�I t•�EFTI?JG - JANUARY 2�, 1�78 � Pa�;e 17
P�IOTION by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Ms.�Suhrbier, that the
� Public Hearing: Request for a Special Use Permit, SP #7$-01, by
Menard Cash�vay Lumber: Per Fridley City Code, Section 205.101, 3,
N� to allovr the development of a 5,000 square foot garden center
in the parking lot, on Lot 9, Auditor's Subdivision No. 94:
the same being 5351 Central Avenue N.�, be continued until such
time that there has been a meeting of Menard�s management, of
concerned citizenry, and City administration to resolve existing
conflicts/grievances. Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the
motion carried unanimously.
Chairperson Hasris declared a break at 10:20 P�M.
3. PR�SLNTATION BY EPdVIRONMENTAT COMP�UNITY SERVICES INC,
MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld, seconded by Mr, Bergman, that the
Planning Commission receive the correspondence from the
Envirnomental Community Services.Inc. dated J anuary 23, 197$,
regarding litter receptacles and litter pickup for both Cities
and. Shopping Centers in the local area. Upon a voice vote,
a17. voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Boardman indicated that the gentlem�n from the Environmental
Community Services, Inca vrere present at the meeting to give
a presentation of a trash receptacle/advertisement schetne that
they hade He explained that the reason the item �vas brough�
� � before the Plannin� Commission tivas because of �the advertising
value of the trash receptacles that they had. He s�id that
it may have been in violation of the Sign Ordinance because
it could be classified as a"billbosrd use". He said that
the billboard type use d�ould only be allowed in specific cases.
Mr.. Richard C. Gillespie, President of Environmental Community
Services, Inc., located at 2810 - 57th Avenue N'orth, Suite �.35,
Brooklyn Center 55430. He introduced to the Commission the
other members of the Cornpany.
Mr. J ack Lindskog, a retired Chief of the Navy, who
had nuch experience in �Juality Control. Mr, Gillespie
commented that it lxtas his belief that to make the
business successful the key tivould have to be quality.
He said that Mr, Lindskog v,ras the regional planning
director of the Nietropolitan Areae
Dre Vernon L. Stintzi, vrho had extensive years in
Executive mana_gement, was a professor in a graduate
business schoole Mr. Stintzi was the Re�ional Manager
for the Metropolitan Area, He would be v�orking ���ith
the City makin� sure the Company adhered to the contracts
as rrell as perform all the promised services.
�
PLI�NNING C6P�MISSION M��TING - J�iNiT1�RY 2�, 19']$ Pa�e 18
Mr. Gillespie saici that, at the suggestion of Mr. Boardman,
he had contacted Mro Mark Hag�erty, the President of the
Chamber of Commerce. P�ir. Gillespie said he had spent close
to an hour r�ith the gentleman and that Mr. Haggerty had
been very favorable to the idea. He said that many of
the ideas of the Environmental Community Services, Inc. were
in close relationship to some of the ideas that� the Chamber
of Commerce tieere thinking of in terms of possib]e garbage pick-up
ideas.
Mr. Gillespie said that some of the services that would be
provided by �nvironmental Community Services, Inc. would
be:
Trash receptacles at no cost to the City.
Trash pick-up at no cost to the City.
The units would be kept clean and maintained at no cost to
the City.
They vrould provide liabili�ty insurance at no cost to the
City,
A tamper-proof unit would be provided
I,oti�r cost advertisement vaould be offered to businesses
IPJould adhere to community standards on advertising.
He said they vrould not discriminate but they would
not try to seek pornographic advertising or liquor
adver�Cising.
Mr. �Gillespie said that there were three ways to lose a
business:
1) Poorly mana�ed;
2) ��Lousy�� idea; ,
3) Poorly funded,
Mr. Gillespie said that they intended to make sure they moved
at a pace that they tivere properly funded. He said that after
they had 60°Jo of the advertising for 100 units; then they would
have anoth�r 100 units and so on.
Mr. Gillespie said they had a service that was timely in keeping
with the philosophy of the area business people.
Mro Gillespie said that they intended to Y�e a permanent business
which would take a leadership role in environmental services.
Mr. Gillespie pointed out tivhat would be needed by the City of
Fridley:
1) Approval to place the units;
2) Place to put the trash at no cost to them;
3) Cooperation of placing the units.
Mr. Gilles�ie said that it wasn't the intent to place units
where trash receptacles wouldn't be needed,
�
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PLANNING COMMISSIDN MEETING - JANUARY� Z�, 19�8 P a�e 19
Mr. �ergman wanted to know exactly who would be burdened with
the cast of the litter receptacles.
Mr. Gillespie explained that the �ity of Fridley would basically
not be a customer and �hey would not pay the cost. He sai.d that
the businessperson of Fridley would be the custom� . He said
that the City of Fridley could buy advertisement and they would
have to pay the same price which would be betvreen $1$ and �25
per month.
Mr. Bergman said that there seemed to
in the proposal:
The City of Fridley for approval
The Customer for advertising to
and the Environmental Community
waste receptacles.
be three parties involved
af the vraste receptacle;
go on the waste receptacles;
Services, Inc. that owned the
Mr. �ergman asked for confirmation of the fact that there would
be no cost to the City of Fridl.ey.
Mr� Gillespie said that the customer would pay the cost for
advertising on the waste receptacles; he said there would
be no cost to the City, other than someplace for the
Compan3� to put the trash.
Mr. Bergman asked if the City would have the opportuni-�y to do
some P�free" adverti�ing on �he ti�vaste receptacles,
Nr�. Gillespie said that bMhen �he Company �zad sides not being
used on the �vaste -reczptacles� they would make those sides available
free to the City� He said that they would have to pay for
their ovrn signs, �
Ms. ScY�nabel asked if the Company had a contract with any other
ci�ty at the present time.
Mr. Gillespie said that they did not have any contracts at the
present time. He said they had talked to people in Brooklyn Park,
Brooklyn Center, Crystal, Golden Va11ey, Minnea�olis, St. Paul,
and Fridley. He said that thej� haven°t talked to anyone that
dicd�.� t�hink it vras a good idea. He said that they were g�tting
gooc� receptivity irom all the communities. Iie said that the
only thing that had to be lo�ked at were the Ordinances of the
communities.
Nir. Boar�man asked how the Environmental Community Services, Inc,
would maintain the litter receptacles.
Mr. Gillespie said that they would have milar linings in the
receptacles that �hey would take out the old one and replace
�vith a ne�v one each time. He said that they also owned a
potix�er vaasher unit that fit in the back of a pick up. He said
that the units would be spray cleaned and wiped down each time
�t�e trash �ras picked up. He said they would clean them in all
seasons. He saic� that they would tieash the insides of the
units a� it rrould be nc:cessary.
PLANTdING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUARY 25� 19�8 Pa�e 20
Mr. Gillespie said that keeping the units clean was a very
important part of their Company. He said what was being sold
to the community was a clean unit, good advertising, and the �
type of service that could be depended upon.
Mr. Langenfeld asked that since the name of the Company was
Environmental Community Services, Inc., did they plan to provide
any other types of services to the communities other than what
had already been discussed.
Mr. Stintzi said that they wanted to go into the schools and
meet vrith the superintendent(s) to get their assistance in
trying to start some project-type activity for the students.
He said that he felt the Company would be able to get into
some of the other angles of the business through suggestions
and ideas from the schools.
Mr. Langenfeld said that the unit did appear to be a sturdy
unit. He said that it seemed that the Company was providing
a lot of services and he wanted to know how all those services
could possibly be paid for.
Mr. Gillespie explained that it was a good business. He said
that each unit had four sides, and each side would cost betvreen
�18 and 9�25 to adv�ertise on them.
Mr. Gillespie said that the wYiole key to iche business being
successful was ��service�t. He said that if they didn't keep the n
units clean an.d if they don't provide good advertising and if
they didn°t satisfy the businessperson that they were getting a
good deal at low cost advertising, then they wo.uldn't be able
to get people to advertise.
Mr. Lan.genfeld asked if the Company would go into recycling
the litter.
Mr. Gillespie said that it tivould probably be explored. He
said that they �vould have to have the complete plans before
they �rould ever venture into such a thing. He cited an example
where recycling was attempted without firm plans and the people
ended up with mass quantities af trash and not kno�ring exactly
what was going to be done +wi�h it.
Mr. Gillespie felt that the young people in the communities
probably had many good ideas that could be explored. He also
said that he totally believed in the ��self-interest" mottm. He
believed that there had to be something in a venture for the
other person as �vell as for himself� He said that if
�nvironmental Community Services, Inc. was not going to make a
p�ofit, then they best not go into the business.
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PLA2�INING C�P�IMMISSION M�., ING - JANUARY 25, 1978 Pa�e 21
P�r. Bez�gman asked if people would really pay to put advertisement
on trash receptacles.
Mr. �illespie said that it would be pedestria� advertising.
He said that the advertising vrould be easier to see tYran the
advertising that v�as put on top of buildings and high in the
air. He said that the adv�rtising would be eye level with the
people tivalking and peox�le driving on the Gtreets.. He also
pointed aut that some of the smaller �businesspe�ple could'not
afford to advertise on the big billboaras.
Ms. Suhrbier asked ho�v often the trash would be picked up from
the receptacles.
Mro Gillespie said they 1R�ould be emptied as often as �vould be
r�ecessary.
Mr. Langenfeld asked if any type of study hacl be.en conducted
indicating crhat type of return the individual �uho used that
�Ype of advEr•tising got.
M�. Gillespie saic� that that type of. study had never been
conducted. He did indicate that a survey had been conducted
�n some communities that had similar Services and that 97/
of the people surveyed had been �'for�� the units and had
liked �l�e �rav the advertising was presentecl ana tY�ey liked
i;h� style of the uri:its, He said that the units �rould b�
tamper-proof containers that ti�ould be for �edestriar.use only.
Mro Baardman said that one of the things that was being requested
by the City of Fridley was a�+place to put the trash at no cost
to Environmental Community Services Inc." He wanted to knovr
tvhat they mean� by that request. He said that the City of Fridley
t�tas not in the rubUish hauling business. �Ie said that they did
not have � City Dump.
Mr. Gill espie said � that there tivere some cities that did have
areas wheretrash haulers could dump at no cost to them.
Ae said that the Compar�y did not tiirant to have to build their
otivn dump someplace to haul the trash out of the City of Fridley�.
He said"that if the City of Fridley had an agreement tivith some
place tivhere ichey tivere presently having the rubbish hauled to,
his �ompany would lvant to buy into that agreement,
Chairperson Harris explained that Fridley did not have a City
Disposal area. He said that presently each resident of Fridley
contracted on their� own to have their trash hauled ativay by private
haulers.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JANUI�R�� 1978 Pa,�e 22
Mr. Boardman said that Environmental Community Services, Inc. had
mentioned that the City v�ould have some type of control over the
type of design of advertisement that would be used. He wantecl to '"`��
know what they meant by that statement.
Mr. Gillespie said that they vJOUld meet t�rith the City to get
their assistance in developing the quality control of the signs.
Chairperson Harris said that to do the above, it �rould take some
special agreements bet�veen the City and Environmental Community
Services. He said that the City Ordinances did not provide
for any regulation of advertising copy.
Mr. Gillespie said it could �e written i�to the cont�act/
agreement.
Mr. Board.man asked �vhat type of arrangement could be made
vrith the Company to have trash receptacles in the Park Facilities.
He said that if they decided to use that type of receptacles in
the Parks, they probably wouldn�t �rarit the advertisement on them;
hovaever, they may v�an.t to utilize them for notification of
park/playground activities that ��ere available. He v�anted to
know what type of cosis they would be talking about.
Mr. �illespie said thai there may be a point that the City of
Fridley would �vant to purchase some of the receptacles themselves.
He said he �vould be ti��illing to indicate what the Company paid for
�Che unitss and with a reasonable profit, th�y �vould sell the �
units to the City. He said there �,ould also be a possibility of
a lease agreement bet�veen the City and the Company �dhere the Company
would own the units and the City of Fridley ti�rould rent them. He
said that in that case, they �rrould pick up the trash an.d maintain
the units the same as they yrould do for the other units that �
�vonld be used for advertising purposes.
Mr. Board.�an asked ��rhat the tops of iche trash receptacles were
made of. .
Mr, Gillespie said they were made of fiberglass.
Mr. Lindskog explained that there vras a new plastic in existence
ealled lexan ��rhich ��:as a very durable plastic that had eight times
the resiliency 'chan '�here tivas in fiberglass. He said
that if the Company ivould discover that due t.o �veather conditions
or vandalism the fiberglass �uasn't holding up, the Company �rould
have to provide the more expensive lexan cover,
Mre Langenfeld asked if there �vould be a"blanket" liability
insurance coverage for all the units in the City of Fridley,
Mr. Lindskog said that the issue ��uould be discussed with the
licensed insurance carrier for the State of Minnesota. �
n
PL�NNIrTG COI��IISSION Mr.�TSNC - J11�TUARY 2�, 1978 Pa�e 2
Chairperson Harris askecl how the proposed signage fit into the
� p�esent Sign Ordinance in the City of Fridley.
tir. B�ardman said that the ��Billboardt� �definition was
'�advertisemerit on a property that doesn't pertain to.that
property1P. He said that the proposed signage would fit into
that c�efinition if the advertisement on one of the sides of
iche container ti�aas not located at the same location as the
trash receptacle. .
Mr. Bergman said that a billboard was clarified as a permanent
structure also, and the proposed signage did not fit that
classification. He didn't believe that the current sign ordinance
related to vrhat the Environmental Community Services Inc. Vras
proposing.
Chairperson Harris asked what size of advertisement wouid be
put on t�e litter receptacle.
Mr. Lindskog said that th.e signs �aould be 21 inches by 22 inches.
He said that he realized that what they tivere proposing was a
unique thing and that the i�em �rould most likely have to be
carefully revietived�
Mr. I,indskQg showed the Commission an example of the types of
bol�ts that iroul� be used to secure �he top of the container to
� the cPment unito He also e:�plained to the Commission hotiv the
signs �.rauld be insertec� into the units. He said that a good--
type oi plastic ti�rould be covEring the face of the ad�certiser�ent.
Mr. Stintzi indicated that the Company rotated the panels during
the first week of each month. He also pointed out that the
entire unit tivould be rotated at least once every 75 days so that
no one side/pan.el would constantly be located at the same angle.
AZre Langenfeld said thai; from the Environmental standpoint the
litter receptacles were aesthetically pleasing and feasible. �
Chairperson FIarris asked �,rhat tre Environ..mental Community Services
was loaking for from the Planning CommissionA
Mr. Gillespie said they had submitted an agreement that they
wanted to get approvedo' He said that they were basically looking
for the City CounciZ approval to be able to locate their trash
containers on the stree�s of Fridley. He said that the sooner
ichey could �et approval, the soor.er th�y could get contracts for
the advertisements, and the sooner they vrould start to receive
the incomz.
Mro Lindskog said that they tivere not requesting a short-sited
ven�ure. He said they ti*ranted a lon� (ten year) contract to let
^ the City of Fridley kno�� that they truly in�ended to be around
for a long time. �
a•�•i+.0 vvaaa-�iu�✓lvar 1'LL'L'111Y1T � UtiltlUii!"(i G�� I��� Ya�E ��}
Chairperson Harris explained that the contract would probably
only be a�reed upon for one year to enable the City to be sure
that rrhat tivas being proposed was really �vhat they wanted. Iie
said that there v�ould most likely be options on that contract
for rene<<�al. .
Mr. Boardman said that �vhat had to be considered from the City�s
standpoint rras 1rhether they ��ould allow that type of advertising
operation. He said it tivould have to be dECided if permits d�rould
be needed for those signs; and if they were needed, do those
signs fall vrithin the �egulations of the Sign Ordinance. He
said that if they did not fall ti��ithin the re�ulations of the Sign
Ordinance, �rhat types of variances tivould be needed or what kinds
of amendments to the Sign Ordinances �rould be needed to allovr that
type of advertisement or that type of signage.
Mr. Boardr�an said that it was certain that the City of Fridley
vrould ti�rant control of the signs that cvent on those trash
receptacles. He said that the City �vould want limited control
over the copy of the signs.
Mr. Gillespie said they �rere open to any and all competition.
He said that the operation was not patented nor was the trash
receptacle.
'�
MOTION by Ms. Schnabel, sec.onded by Ms. Shea, that the
Planning Commission recommend to City Council approval of the
concept of the refuse disposal units as proposed by Environmental
Community Services Inc. �•rithin the legal limits of the sign - ��
ordinance i�rhich may require some amend.ment and vrith the understanding
that the City, by contract, �rith �nvironmental Community Services
v�►ould have limited control over the copy of advertisement placed
in the units.
Chairperson Flarris said that there should be a contrac� bet�veen
Environmental Community Services Inc and the City and it would
have to be stated exactly ho�rr they intended to handle the business
as �rell as the dumping arrangements. -� -
IIPON A VOICE VOTE9 all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
4. RECEIVE HUNTAN RESOU�CES COMMISSION MINUTES: JANUARY 5� 1978
MOTTON by Ms. Shea, seconded by Mr. Bergman, that the Planning
Commission receive the January 5, 1978 minutes of the Human
Reso�arces Commission,
Ms, Shea said that some recommendations tivere made on the Maintenance
Code that the Commission tivanted to go onto City Council.
tTPON A VOICE VOTE, al� voting aye, the motion carried unaninously..
The minutes were received at 11:1�0 P.M.
r�
_ ��
%"�
PLANPIING COMP4ISSION t�ZE �TING - J1�NUARY 25� 1978 Pa�e 25
5•
REC
MINUTES:
MOTION by Ms. Suhrbier, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, that the
Planning Commission receive the�Parks and Recreation Commission
minutes of January 9, 1978.
Ms. Suhrbier said that o.n Page 61 she hadn�t felt that the
actual item was macle clear. She said they tivanted to work for
the younger kids to get earlier ice time at the arena.
Chairperson Harris said that he had discussed that item with
Mr. Kordiak and Mr. 0'Bannon and they v�rould be lookirig into
the obtaining of earlier ice time as well as more ice time.
UPON � VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried
unanimously. The minutes were received at 11:41 P.M.
6.
MOTION by Mr. Bergman, seconded by Ms. Shea, that the Planning
Commission receive the Ja.nuary 10� 1978, Community Development
Commission minutes.
. Mro Zangenfeld referenced page 68,
Iie felt that the statemen� co�xld be
� "nii-picking�� s
�
the third paragraph.
interrupted as
Mr. Bergman said that Community Development was unanimous
in agreeing that �xrhen they vJOUld go through the Ordinances
they ��JOUld reuie�rr it, approve it� and make any recommendations
or stipulations that they felt crould be necessary. He said
that the Commission fel� that they should not nit-pik words
They felt that they slzould revie�ra the ordinances in terms of its
content, general direction; challenge it as to whether it would
be good for the City. He said it was felt it should be decided
if the ordinances a�aere meaningful and if they would be reasonably
enforceable, It should also be decided if the particular
ordinance being reviebved made sense for the City of Fridleym
Ehairperson Harris �vanted to know tivhat �vas meant by the statement
made by Mr. Acosta on P age 69, third paragraph.
Mr. Boardman said that tivhat was usually being looked for vJhen
a proposal goes before the Commissions was a feel as to the
direction that the proposal should goe He said they �vanted to
kno�v if iche content of the Plan �vas adequate to do the things
that the Commission felt the Plan should do. FIe said that if
was decided that it tivasn't adequate, then they tivanted to knotiv
�rhy it wasn't adequate. He said they didn't need to know all
the little tivord changes unless the change of words would change
�he entire meaning of the statement.
PLANNING COMP�IISSION MEETING - JANUARY 25, 1978� Pa�e 26
� _
Mr. Boardman said that hopefully i�hen the proposal vras�typed
in final form, all the vrords would be put in th�,proper
perspective. He said that as long as Staff gets the general
direction, they can ��rork from that point. He felt that many
times the Planning Commission "vrasted" a lot of time nit-
picking v�lords.
Chairperson Harris felt that anything to
was the responsibility of the Commission.
sometimes a lot more time had to be spent
because of the content of the proposal.
do with the Community
He felt that
going over proposals
Mr. Boardman stated that he believe� the Parks and Open Space
Plan r�as probably the single, most important document the City
of Fridley would put out this yearo because it vrould have the
most meaningful effect on the citizens. He felt that a lot
of ineaningful discussion had been occurring at the Planning
Commission level. He indicated that he still �vas concerned
about some of the nit-picking that had gone on.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
The minutes were received at 11:59 P.�. �
MOTION by Mr. Bergman� seconded by Ms. Schnabel, that the
Planning Commissian concur ti�rith the Communicy Development
Commission to recommend to City Council the discontinuance
of the Biketivay/�"Jalkti;ray Project Committee, and that any further
involvement be referred to the Community Development Commission.
In addition, that City Council send to current members of
the Biketivay/1'dalktiJay Project Committee a notice to this effect
and . a thanks for their efforts.
UPON A VOICE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously.
7. CONTINUED; PARKS & OPEN SPACE PLAN�
MOTION by Mr. Bergman� seconded by Ms. Shea, that the Planning
Commission continue the P arks and Open Space Plan. Upon a voice
vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously at
1 Z: 03 P.Mo
8. OTHER BUSINESS
"BEST HOUSING BARGAINS I�R� IN THE INNER CITI�S"
Ms. Schnabel had a copy of this article from the Sunday,
January 22, 1978, netirspaper made for e�ch of the members of the
Planning Comraissione She pointed out that ttivo of the items
she had bracketed in the article that she felt the City of
Fridley could take into consideration.
Ms. Schnabel explained that at the J anuary 2y., 1978, Appeals
Commission meeting they heard the requests to construct houses
on 40 foot lot�. She said that the result of the meetin� �va�
that there ���as a motion to deny the requests.
�
�
,''�1
PL�LNNING COMMISSIOPd MEETING - J1�iUARY 251 1978 Pa�e 27
She said that with all the revie�rring�of the situation of 40 foot
� lots, she has had a lot of problems of tivhat was to be done ti��ith
the rehabilitation of a lot of the existing stru,�tures in Fridley
that needed ti�rork done to bring them up to habital dtivellings as
� well as substantial homes to have on the tax roles.
n
�,
Ms. Schnabel said that she brought the article to the Planning
Commissian so that they might discuss at some time the t�vo points
she had bracketed.
Ms. Schnabel said that the one point ti�ras that perhaps there
should be a separate housing code for the rehabilitation,
sometit�hat less stringent than those housing codes for new
housing. She said that the fact was that in rehabilitating
dti�lellings, a lot of the work sometimes ti�vas done by the
individual that otimed the dbvelling,
Ms. Schnabel said that the second point was that the city of
St. Louis offers a 10-year abatement on property tax for those
people that improved their homes, She felt that tivas another
thing that the City of Fridley could consider especially in
the Hyde Park areao She said that perhaps if the people in
the area had some type of tax abatement they may be more
tivilling to put their money into their o�vn homes.
Ms. Schnabel requested that the item be put on the Planning
Commission agenda in the near future.
"ENERGY COMMISSIOI�T1'
Chairperson Harris indicated that
Council ��dorkshop meeting tivould be
Commissiont�. He said.that if any
Commission had any thoughts on the
attend that meeting.
at the January30, 1978, City
.discussing the ��Energy
of th.e members of the Planning
item, they should plan to
ADJOURI�IMENT �
MOTION by Ms. Shea, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, to adjourn the
January 25, 1978, Planning Commission meeting. U1�on a voice
vote� all voting aye� Chairman Harris�declared the P�.anning
Co�nission meeting of January 25, 1978 adjourned at 12;09
A.M. � .
Respectfully submitted,
�' �/ ..e� `
I�iaryLee Carhill �
Recording Secretary