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PL 06/21/1978 - 304930 CITY OF FRS��EY PLANNING COMMISSSON MEETING — JUNE 21, 1978 CALL TO ORDER: Chairperson Harris called the June 21, 1978, Planning C•ommission meeting to order at ?:36 p.�. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Members Absent: Others Present: Storla, Oquist, Harris, Peterson, Schnabel, Langenfeld None Jerrold Boardman, tity Planner APPROVE PLANNTNG COMMISSION MINUTES: June 7, Z978 MOTION by Mr• Oquist, seconded by Mr. Langenfeld, to approve the June ?, 1978, planning �ommission meeting minutes• Mr• Langenfeld indicated that, as was stated on page 13 of the minutes, the discussion on the Recycling Project Report had been continued and not tabied• UPON � V42CE VOTE, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously- 1• PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A PR P• S• 78-p5, �1UNN ° S HILL�REST ADDITIOtV : /"'� TODD BLAIR: A REPLAT OF LOTS �,7,8, HILLCREAST ADDITION, GENERALLY LOCATED THE EAST SIDE OF EAST RIVER ROAD• POSE BY IN TH� PRELI �10THY �, BL 7100 IN ARY PL AT MUNN AND C K'°—�---- BLOCK ON MOTION by Mr• Storla, seconded by Ms• Schnabel, to open the public Hearing• Upon a voice vote, all vo�ing aye, the moti�n carried unanimously- The public Hearing was opened at ?:38 p.►�. Mr• Boardman explained what the petitioners were requesting. Ne indicated that Hillcrest Drive and Meyers Avenue have not been approved as developed streets• He said that they were presently only right-of-ways• He said that certain stipulations would have to be placed on.the approval of the preliminary P1at�p.S. 78-OS• He said that the drainage for the area would have to be considered and a drainage plan submitted; soil borings would have to be taken; easements would be re�ained between the properties; and there would have to be some type of access provided to �ots 11, 12, & 13 which were City owned lots• . Mr• Todd°Blair and Mr• Tim Munn were present at the meeting. Mr• Blair indicated that they were not interested in developing aIl of Hillcrest Drive and Meyers Avenue- He said they only needed enough of Hillcrest developed so that the cul-de-sac would have access to Hickory Drive, thereby giving access to E ast River Road- PLANNING COMMISSION MEETTNG — JUNE 21, 1978 page 2 t Mr• Boardman indicated that the Lots 11, 12, & 13 had been initially intended for drainage purposes• He explained that there had been a petition submitted by the neighborhood to put a park on those lots• He said that the Parks & Reereation Commission had motioned that � those lots be left as.�they were intended or sold and the money used to improve the neighborhood access to other parks in the area• He said that it was se�t to the City Council by the Planning Commissio�,� with the Planning Commission's concurrence an the motion- . Chairperson Harris asked what the petitioners planned for outlot ^A^• He mainly wanted to know exactly who would maintain that outlot• He didn't want to see the lot become a^dumping^ grounds• Mr• Munn.said that the person living the closest to the outlot would be the only person that would be able to�use the land, therefore it would be up to that person to also maintain the outlot• He said that they would explain the situation to the.people that would live in the corner house• Chairperson Harris asked who was maintaining the Hillcrest Drive right—of—way• Mr• Boardman said that the people living� adjacent to the right—of— way were maintaining the property• • Chairperson Harris asked what the petitioners planned to do with La� 10• Mr• Munn said that the City would most likely purchase that land if they so decided to put a park in that location• Mr• Boardman indicated that the tity Council had not committed anything towards p�ark praperty in that area• Mr- Oquist asked if the plat would be contingent on the completion of Hillcrest Drive• � Mr• Boardman said that it was contingent on the completion of Hillcrest Drive from Blair Drive to Hickory Drive only• He said that would be the nine—house development's access onto East River Road• � �, Chairperson Harris said that Lot 10 did not meet the platting Ordinance requirements• Mr• Munn indicated that Lot 1� was already an existing lot• Mr• Boardman said that that the Ordinance did allow a 5� foot lot if it was platted before 1955• He said the only conditions were that the size of the lot could not be increased because it was already an existing lot• He said that the lot would be a 50 foot lot whether it would be part o�F this plat or not• � � PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JIINE 21 ,� 1978 Pa�;e 3 Mr. Peterson said that there would be no access to any park that would go into that area �vith the development of the proposed plat. Mr. Boardman said that a 20 foot �aalkeuay easement would be taken over by the Ci.ty between Lots 4& 5 of the proposed plat. Mr. Peterson didn't feel that a ZO foot walkway would be adequate. He felt there would be many problems with people trespassing on the resident�s propert90 Mr. Peterson indicated that a park at that location did not fit into the total park plan for the City of Fridley. Chairperson Harris was concerned about the maintenan.ce of Lot 10. He wanted to know how the lot was and would be maintainedo Mr. Munn said that the County assessed the property and the County did all the maintenance. Mr. Peterson said that there had already been complaints regarding the maintenance of the lots in that area. Mr. Boardman indicated that Lots 11, 12 & 13 were presently City owned and were used as drainage lots. He said that it was recommended not to have any City owned proper�ty behind the plat at all and improve on the already existing drainage ditches provided by Burlington Northern. He :Felt that a drainage ditch ,'"1 along the railroad tracks should take Eare of the egisting prablems of water "standing�� on those lots. He said it was not recommended at that point to develop any park land on those lots. Chairperson Harris e�lained that the plating and the requested Park were a�tually tied together. He said that once the plat is approved as proposed' then there would be egen more pressure from the neighborhood to dev:�lop a park in that loca�ion. Mr. Peterson said that Parks and Recreation Commission said that they did not and would not recommend a park for that location. Chairperson Iiarris asked what would happen to the.City owned lots if the plat being proposed was appr�ved. � Mr. Boardman said that the Tots would be maintaiaed as drainage areas. Chairperson Harris felt that the decision should be made by the City Council as to egactly what they wanted to do with Hillcrest Drive and Meyer Avenues. He said that if the possibility of a park on the City owned lots was completely abarsdoned� then perhaps all the area could be included on the plat. Otherwise� he said that I,ots 11� 12 & 13 could be left as is� but termed ��open spaces��. � � PLANDTING COMMISSION MEETING - JUNE 219° 1978 Pa�e 4 , Chairperson Harris asked the petitioners if the City decided to abandon the idea of park land on Lots 11� 12 & 13� if they would be interested in including those lots on the plat. n Mr. Munn said thaic the neighbors had already indicated their interest in those lots. He said that the neighbors wanted that lan.d to insure prevention of any further development in their neighborhood. Chairperson Harris said that whoever purchased �hose lots would have the responsibility of properly maintaining the property. Chairperson Iiarris explained to the petitioners that he felt that the plat was a goocl proposale He said that the Commission members were having difficulty dealing with the development of Lot 10. Mr. Peterson said that by including the South half of I,ot 10 in the proposed plat, it would make it very difficult to do an�thing with I,ots 11 , 12 & 13 at a later date. Chairperson Harris explained that to not include Zot 10� the petitioaers would lose tvao lots from their proposed plat. Chairperson Harris�said that v,�.thout a decision from Cit9 Council it was hard fox the Plan.ning Commission to decide much. He felt that something had to be decided regarding that area in the very • near future. Mr. Terry Mickley of 7075 Hickory Drive, Mr. Les Blinco of 7067 Hickory Drive, and Bud Berry of 6965 �ickory Drive were present at the meeiing regarding this item. Mro Mickley commented that there was presently problems with fires on the City ovrrned land in that area. He said that the fire trucks could get to the back land by using the Meyers Avenue right of way. Mr. Mickley wanted a house on some of requirements. to know if the petitioners would be able to put the proposed lots and still adhere to the �setback Mr. Mickley said that Lots 6 thru 9�ere located on very low land. He said that if the petitioners raised the natural flow of the water on that land� the water would flo�v onto the back yards of the existing houses. He felt that the water had to flow some place and he sa:id that presently there seemed to be a natural flow of the water to go to the City oti�ned lots. He said that many times the �ater would "stand�' on those lots. Mr. Mickley wanted assurance that the petitioners would have to abide by all the City requirements. � � PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JUN� 21, 1978 P age 5 .� �r. Mickley indicated that his house and several of his existing f'`� neighbor�s houses had basemen�s constructed on higher ground than some of the lo�s in the proposed plats. He wanted to know how the petitioner �ould work around the existing water table problems and still meet a11 the requirements of the City. Mr. Boardman said that before the petitioaer could obtain a Building Permit for the proposed development, a drainage plan had to be submitted and approved by the City and the Rice Creek Water Shed District. He explained that the drainage plan would have to solve an� existing problems that property had as well as assure that no new problems would be created. He said that all the lots would have to have soil borings and water table studies because of the already existing water problems in. that area. Mr. Blinco had pictures of the lots taken when there was water standing on them• Mr. Boardman explained to the neighbors that someone owned the property being discussed. He said that if that p�son could build on that lan.d and solve all the drainage problems� then they should be allo�red to develop the lanci. Mr. Blinco said that they didn.�t object to the project, �e said that their concern was that the proposed development didn�t change the natural ti�ater run-off flovr. He sai.d that the neighbors did not want n to have the flow chan.ged so that the run-off v�ould end up in their back yards. He wanted some assurance that the problem won�t develop. Mr. Boardman said that the City had Engineers that would make sure that the development �rould not cause any drainage problems at all. He said that they would insure that the petitioners would solve any existing problems also. He said that the City was aware of the water problems in �hat area. Mr. Mickley asked that much consideration be given regarding the �vater problems in that area before approving any type of plat. Mr. Mickley also.pointed out that there no longer exi�ted any drainage ditch along the railroad trackso He said that the railroad used the ditch to bury their railroad ties. � Chairperson Harris suggested that someone from Staff talk to Burlington Northern. . �, PLANNING COMMYSSION MEETING - JUNE 21, 1978 Page 6 Mr• Blinco wanted to know if the City was ever planning to take care of the weeds on their lots• He indicated that the neighbors still wanted to have a park located on those lots• Mr• Boardman said that the lots should be property maintained by the.City and that he would check into the matter• MOTION by Ms• Schnabel, seconded by Mr- Langenfeld, to close the public Hearing• Upon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motion carried unanimously• The Public Hearing was closed at 8e39 P•M• Mr• Langenfeld commented that the particular situation had definitely caused much concern for many people• He said that he was all for any development that would better the City of Fridley; however he could not see any future development on the property in question• He said that a person did not have to be an Engineer to see the ^mess^ in that area• He felt that before he could approve any form of construction, the drainage situation would have to be solved• Mr• Langenfeld wanted to know when the item would be handled by the City Council• Mr• Boardman said that it would be before the City Council on July 17, 1978• i'1 Mr- Peterson felt that the proposed preliminary Plat PS 78-OS should not be approved at that time because of the drainage problems;� outlot 10 in conjunction with the City owned property would be landlocked; and because if a park was located in that area if and when the City Council decided to go against the recommendation of the Parks and Recreation Commisssion and the concurrence of the Planning Commission, the access would be inadequate- Mr• Langenfeld definitely felt that by confronting the situation now, would prevent many problems in the future• Mr• Peterson explained that he felt the plat was good• He said that the Commission �ad problems approving the plat because there were other properties that could be effected by the plat• Mr• Blair said that Mr• Sobiech was working on the drainage problems- He said that they would have all the necessary information and solutions by July 13, 1978• He said that the City of Fridley would not issue the Building Permits if they thought that�the water run-off would go into the rear yards of the adjacent neighbors• • � PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - JUNE 21, 1978 Page ?• Ms• Schnabel pointed out that if the property was not replatted, houses would probably be constructed on the lots of the existing � plat• She said that the existing lots were buildable lots and building permi�s would most likely be gr�nted• She felt �hat the replat offered the City and the neighbors more control to assure that the drainage problems were not made worse and hopefully would improve the situation• Ms• Schnabel said that she sensed the fact that the neighbors were not sa much against the development of the property as they were concerned about the present drainage problems.and the chance of additional drainage problems in the future- Mr• Mickley said that the proposed development seemed to be a good plan for the area• He said that the concern was being expressed regarding the drainage and how it would exactly be handled• Chairperson Harris said that it was obvious that someone would have to take some action and develop a drainage system in that area• He felt that the water should be channeled onto the City owned lots and then into �he BurlingtonNorthe^n's drainage ditches• .He said that Burlington Northern would be contacted regarding such plans• Ms• Schnabel suggested that the �ommission continue the item until the developers were able to have all their information n together• Mr- Peterson said that he wanted to be sure that the item was not just sent onto City Council without forcing an issue on a rather difficult problem• Chairperson Harris explained to the petitianers that without the Commission being able to review the drainage plan and without being able to arrive at solutions to problems/concerns that had been expressed at the meeting, it was very difficult for the members of the Commission to approve the preliminary plat• He said that if the item wasn't continued, then the petitioners would have to go to the City Council with a plat without the recommendation of the Planning Commission and possibly with a negative decision• Mr• Boardman pointed out that if the item was continued, it would go to Council in August• Mr• Munn indicated that there would be a possibility that they would lose their contractors if the item was delayed any longer• He informed the Commission that they have tried to develop that piece of property since November• . � gLAIVNING COMMISSION M�ETING - JUNE 21, 1978 � Pa�e 8 MOTION by Mro Peter-son� seconded by Mro Langenfeld� that the Planning Commission continue the consideration of a proposed preliminary Plat� P.S. #78-05, MUNN'S Hillcrest Addition: by Timothy Munn and Todd Blair: A replat of Lots�59 6a 7� 8� 9� and 10� Block 2' Hillcrest Addition� generally located in the 7100 block on the East Side of East River Road until the July 12� 1978� Planning Commission meeting with a preset public hearing date with the City Council of July 17' 1978. IIpon a voice vote, all voting aye, the motioa carried unanimously. � Chairperson Harris explained that at the July 129 19?8,�meeting, the Planning Commission would require the drainage plano He said that they would also require from Staff how the City property tied into the proposed plat. He said they �ould also have to have the results of the soil borings and the petitioners should indicate the easement lines on the plat as well as where access to the City owned property would be proeided. He said that Staff should also examine the situation of the drainage d.itch with Burlington Northern. Chairperson Harris suggested that the petitioner �ork closely with City Staff to be sure that all the details of the plat are carefully worked out, MOTION by Mro Peterson, seconded by Mr, Langenfeld� requesting that iche Chairman of the Planning Commissian appear before the City Council explaining the motion of the P arYs and Recreation Commission along with the concurrence of the Planning Com�ission regarding the property in questiona Upoa a v'oice vote9 all voting ayeD the motion carried unanimouslye Chairperson Harris said that he would discuss the item w�.�h the City Council on July 10� 1978. 2. CONTINtTED ENERGY COMMISSION DISCIISSTON Chairperson Harris said that he had attended the City Council meeting as per the motion made by ihe Planning Commission. He said he made the request for City Administrative help on an "as need�� basis and for secretarial help on a regular basis for the Energy Project Committee, Mr� Harris indicated that the City Council denied the request. Chairperson Harris said that the City Council had indicated they would reconsider the request after the Commission had put together the scope of the committee. Chairperson Harris said that he was told that the denial v�as made due to a policy situatione He said that it was a 3-2 vote to deny because it was a policy that none of the project committees would receive Staff or secretarial help. /"1 PI,ANNING COMMISSION ME�TING - JUNE 2? � 1978 Pa�,� e 9 �___s_� MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld� seconded by Ms. Schnabel� to receive the discussion material that City Siaff had provided for the Energy � Committee discussion. IIpon a voice vote' all voting aye�.the motion carried unanimouslyo Mr. Boardman said tha� he had talked to Ms. Harper from the Energy Agency and that she was scheduled to appear before the Planning Commission on July 12' 1978. He said that she would be able to assist the Commission in setting up the goals and objectives for the Energy Commitiee. Ms. Schnabel said that whether or not the CitS* Council at that time chose to grant the request for Staff and secre�tarial help ciid not mean that the energy problems didn�t still exist. She felt that the Planning Commission should continue �vith the original concept and in the process try to convince the City Council to support the Energy Committee� Mr. I,an.genfeld stated that the Plan.ning Commission was asked to act iu regards to an Energy Committee and they had takea action accordingly. He wanted to knaw why they couldn�t no�r get suppor� from the City Councilo Mrm Peterso$ said that the Planning Commission should decide ho� the Committee would be organized an.d then establish a liason. Chairperson Fiarris said that the City Council wanted the scope of the �� Energy Committee; what the goals and objectives would bes He said they wan.ted to know how �he Committee would be made up. Ms. Schnabel said �hat if the Planning Commission �ras truly a��planning�t commission thea one of the plans they should conceive for the Ci-�y �rould be some type of an Energy Project Committeee She s�id that the Planning Commission should being the concept to the City Council and if the Couacil chose not to agree with the concept �hen the concept �aould have to be brought back �o the voters of the Ci�y for them to decide, Mr. Peterson didn�t feel that the Planning Commission should have to spend a great deal of tim� �rriting the Energy Policy for the city. He felt that the Energy Committee should be staffed �vith the people capable of arriving at the goals and objectives. He saic� that -the Plan,ning Commission should work with the Energy Committee after they have done all the research and. such necessary to gather all the information tha't would be needed �to come up ti•�-i.th an Energy Policy for �he City of Fridley. Mr. Oquist felt that the scope an.d purpose as written by Mr. Boardman in the booklet provided �o the members �vas exactly what the Energy Committee �rould need. He felt that the members should be given the scope and purpose and then they should develop the goals an,d objectives. � PLANNIPIG COt�fNIISSION MEETItiG - JUNE Z1. 1978 Pa�e 10 ' __.....o.s .� .� �v.. Mr. Boardman said that the ��charge" to the Committee should be for them to identii'y the problems and v�hat kind of policy should be set up to solve the problems that they feel exist in the Ci-ty of Fridleyo Ms. Schnabel said which are in need public ar�areness. that the Committee should'also prioritize those areas of specific programs and also develop a program of Mr. Boardman said that Chairperson Harris would chair the Energy Project Committee to help get the Committee going ia the right direction. He said that by the third meeting of the Energy Committee a person from the Project Committee i�ould be elected to be the Chairperson of the Energy Project Committee. Mr. Boardman said that he tixrould utilize all avenues of advertisment to get the most kno�rledgeable people from the City of Fridleyo He said that he would layout an advertisment for the Energy Project Conmittee and have it at the July 129 1978 Planning Commission meeting for the review of the members. MOTION by Ms. Schn.abel� seconded by Mr. Peterson� to continue the Energy Project Committee discussion. Upon a.voice vote' all vo-�ing aye9 the motion carried unan.imouslyo The discussion was continued until July 129 7978. 3. CONTINIIED: RECYCLING PROJECT REPORT Ms. Connie Metcalf and Ms, Elaine Jensen were at the meeting regarding this item. Ms. Metcalf said that the main concern of the Environmental Quality Commission was �hether the lan.d would be available. She said that she had talked to Dick'Sobiech and he stated that the land would probably be avai.lable a.nd consistent with the city plan.s. Ms. Metcalf indicated that the responsibility of the collection�center was an important issueo She said that the main reason many of the collection centers failed ti�as because of the lack of organization and confusion as to who would be responsible. Ms. Metcalf indicatec� that the exact mechanics of the center had not been totally �vorked out. She said that the project commi�tee would be talking to many other collection centers as well as to Dick�s Recycling of Brooklyn P ark �rho would be picking up the recyclable materials from the City of Fridleyo � � n , , PL�NG COMMISSION MEETZN___ G�JUN� Z1 ,? 78 ,�„ Pa�e 1 1• Mre Oquist pointed out that the management of money payment should be a major concern. He said that if the money was �ot dispersed equ.ally� a bi� problem could developo �, � Ms, Metcalf said that it would be operated as much like the Edina recycling center as possible. She said that they would find out from them how the money was dispersed fai.rly. Mr. Boardman said that if the collection center was to be operated on a volunteer basis9 so�e place in the future it tivould probably end up to be a City operationo He felt that a�t some poin.t in time the center would have to be maintained by City Staff. He said that whether i� would actually be operated by City personnel or contracted out by the City, the poin� had to be kept in miad. Mr. Peterson said that he totally supported whatever needed to be done to get a collection center started. Ms. Metcalf explained to the Commission exac�ly how they planned to have the collection center set up. She felt that the City should make some type of commit�ment to support the collectioa center. Mr. Boardman said that the City would possibly commit land that this type of center could be placed� hov�ever he was not sure whether the City tivas ready to commit s-ta�f personnel. Chairperson Harris explai.ned that if the Projec� Committee has decided � that they tivould manage �he collec�ion cenier� then the group had �o �_ _�" be reorganized. He said that presently �"chey were a projecic committee ' un.der the Environmental Quality Commission. He said that if they iwa�ted to be the operating committee for the collection center9 �hen � they �ould have to dissolve the project committee and regroup themselves with no involvement at all with the City excep� the City would possibly ��donateTt the land to have the collection center located on. FIe said that the ne�v ��committee�� would have to have an operatiag plan that they could present to �he City of Fridley. He said that the Citg Council would also �rant to knoN how �he Committee plan.ned to maintain the �'donated�� land. Ms. Metcalf pointed out that if the City ever felt that the lan.d was not being properly ma3ntained9 they could order the co.11ection center to cease their operation. Mr. Storla said it was about time �that Fridley did something about the subject of recycling. He suggested that the Collection Center commit�ee look.into the possibility of becoming and opera-ting under the terms of a��non-profit organization��e He explained the procedure the Teen Center in the City of Fridley went through and �the benefits of doing such an. action. �'`.,�e PLANNING COr��ISSION I�iEETII�IG - JIIA1E 21 �' 97f3 , Pa�e i 2 MOTION by Mro Peterson� seconded by Mr. Oquist' �Chat the Planning receive and accept �he Recycling P�oject Co�mittee's report� with and �hat o�ould end�their part of their responsibility. Also' that the Planning Commission encoura�e them to or�anize and cont�inue on that the Collection Center for the City of Fridley would become a realityo. Upon a voice vote� all voting aye9 the motion carried unanimously. L�. RECEIVE HiIMAN RESOURCES COMt�ISSION MIIIUTES : JUPTE 1 g 1978 MOTION by Mro Storla' seconded by Mro Oquisty to receive the Human Resources Commission minutes of June 19 1978. Upon a voice vote9 all voting aye' the motion carried unanimouslyo MOTION by Mr. Langenfeld' seconded by Mxe Storla9 to receine the Memorandum of Agree�aent. IIpon a�roice vo�e9 all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. MOTION by Mrm Storla' seconded by Mr. Zan.genfeld' to con�tinue the discussioa of the Memorandum of Agreement un.til the next meeting, Upon a voice vote' all voting aye' the motion carried unanimously. 5. RECEIVE APPEALS COMMISSION MINUTES: JUNE 1� Commission thanks' MOTION by Ms. Schnabel� seconded by Mr. Storla� to recei�re the Appeals Commission minutes of Jun.e 13� 1978. Ms. Schnabel pointed out that it had been erroneously stated that the meeting of July 27� 1978 had been cancelledm She said that there �e_ ould be a meeting on July 27� 1978� 'OPON A VOTCE VOTE� all voting ayes the motion carried unan.imouslq. 6. o� Chairperson Harris said that theg had received a letter from Mre Ren Korin o� 6051 Benjamin Street. The letter was regarding damages done to his property by Dailey Homes. so � MOTION by Mr. I,axigenfeld9 seconded by Mr,� Peterson� to receiee the letter from Mre Korin of 6051 Ben amin Street NE9.Fridley' MN and to send it on to Citg Council for ac�iom. Upon a vozce vote' all voting aye� the motion carried unanimously. ADJOIIRr]MENT �. � NfOTION by Mso Schnabel� seconded by Mr. Oquist� to adjourn the June 21' 1978 Planning Commi.ssion meeting, Upon a voice vote9 all voting aye, the, motion carried unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 11:3�.P.M. Respectfully submitted� %�'% ,� . MaryLee Carhill Recording Secretary �, ��