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PL 02/08/1989 - 30696/"� � CITY OF FRIDLEY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRIIARY 8, 1989 _________________�_______________________________________________ CALL TO ORDER• Chairperson Betzold called the February 8, 1989, Planning Commission meeting to order at 7:35 p.m. ROLL CALL• Members Present: Donald Betzold, Dave Kondrick, Dean Saba, Sue Sherek, Paul Dahlberg Members Absent: Others Present: Alex Barna Barbara Dacy, Planning Coordinator APPROVAL OF JANUARY 25 1989. PLANNING COMMI_SSION MINUTES: MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to approve the January 25, 1989, Planning Commission minutes. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE � CIiAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY. The Commissioners February 1, 1989, meeting. agreed to continue the approval of the Special Planning Commission minutes until the next 1. DISCUSSION OF LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT: Ms. Dacy stated at the end of the February 1 meeting, the Commissioners were talking about three stations in Fridley. Staff's question was: If development starts to happen at other locations along the route such as 81st Avenue or Osborne Road or Lake Pointe and there are only three station locations, will they have the ability to add stations in the future? She stated she had asked the BRW consultant about this. He said he would prefer that the Commission make a recommendation for the ultimate plan for station locations now, because it is more cost effective to design the station locations into the system design at this point. Ms. Dacy stated it is the consultant's recommendation that if the Commission is not going to recommend the urban philosophy or recommend certain station locations, they should at least prioritize alternate station locations. �"1 PLANNING COMMISSION NlEETING, FEBRUARY 8. 1989 ,� Ms. Dacy stated she asked the consultant how many riders will be using this for internal trips (non-commuter oriented trips), and he said no more than 20a. Mr. Dahlberg stated he thought they can make the assumption that the people using the LRT in Fridley are not going to do it internally. They are going to use it from whatever station location to downtown and then to points east and west. Whether Fridley has three stations or eight stations, the use is going to be primarily from the station to downtown. So, the determination of whether to have three stations versus eight stations is based on whether they want to provide the residents of Fridley an easy access from their homes and their neighborhoods to downtown. Ms. Dacy stated the urban philosophy affects the travel time, and that information was in charts included in the February 1 Planning Commission meeting agenda. The difference between the urban and commuter philosophy is about 4-5 minutes. Mr. Dahlberg stated the travel time potentially will be a critical element for people who are going to downtown from way out, and they are not going to want very many stops. /`�, Mr. Saba asked if any thought had been given to using the LRT for anything other than passenger service, such as a parcel service from the airport to industries or vice versa. If Lake Pointe is ever developed, some type of business center might want to use the LRT for an express type postal service. However, he did not see any point in having an LRT station at Lake Pointe. He would rather see the LRT run all the way down University Avenue with a minimum number of stops in Fridley. Ms. Dacy stated that other than the Columbia Arena station, the Mississippi Street station, the 57th Place station, and the 61st Avenue commuter site, they are looking at the following station locations: Osborne Road, 81st Avenue, Lake Pointe (possibly), and 53rd Avenue (possibly). The other factor that has to be looked at is whether the Columbia Arena site is hampered because it does not have the east/west access. That is the last stop until Northtown, and having a station at either Osborne Avenue or 81st Avenue (or even 85th Avenue) would provide that east/west access. Ms. Dacy stated in her memo dated February 3 to the Planning Commission, she tried to summarize some pros and cons under the urban and commuter philosophy to help the Commission formalize their thoughts about what type of philosophy they wanted to recommend to the City's representatives on the Anoka County LRT Committees. � -2- PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. FEBRUARY 8, 1989_ ,� Mr. Betzold stated there is going to be a need for mass education to the public so they understand what is happening. The Commission might want to consider having a public hearing to inform the public and solicit input from the public. He stated two issues he felt the Planning Commission can influence are: 1. the route 2. the commuter or the urban philosophy Mr. Betzold stated that in order for the Commission to make a decision as to how many stops in Fridley, he would like to see what the whole system is going to look like. If they decide they want the fast LRT system with as few stops as possible in Fridley, that is fine; but then there might be 11 stops in Columbia Heights. He thought a decision has to be made on a higher level as to whether there should be a few or many stops in, not only Fridley, but the other communities as well. Mr. Dahlberg stated he did not necessarily agree. At the Feb. 1 meeting, Mr. Flora suggested the possibility of the LRT system functioning like a bus service where there is an express vehicle that does not stop at every station. If the trains can be �'�, sequenced to operate in this fashion, then they can provide as many stops as is reasonable to provide through the community. That seemed like the best recommendation. Why be strictly urban or strictly commuter? Why can't there be a mix? Mr. Saba stated the advantage of light rail is it is supposed to be more reliable than the bus service where people do not have to look at schedules but know that the train runs on a regular basis. Having a mix of urban and commuter might cause a problem with reliability of the service. Ms. Sherek asked why not a mixed transit model like the one in Chicago. The trains go downtown, but for local commuting, people take the bus. She had a problem with the elimination of the buses entirely. The bus system should be left in place. Mr. Dahlberg stated if the Commission decides to recommend an urban system, maybe they should say that in order for the urban system to work in Fridley, there has to be a bus system running on the same street or line. Or, if they recommend a commuter system through Fridley, then the Anoka County Railroad Authority, as well as the Metropolitan Council, should also include an express bus system on University Avenue. Ms. Dacy stated that under the urban philosophy, there are seven ^ -3- � � PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 8, 1989 stops north of I-694. There are a total of 18 stops from Northtown to downtown with seven stops in Fridley. Ms. Dacy stated under the commuter philosophy, there are 10 stations to downtown. The difference in time between the commuter and the urban north of�I-694 is 7.6 minutes versus 9.7 minutes, so there is a difference of approximately 2 minutes. Ms. Dacy stated Mr. Dahlberg's point regarding a commuter/urban mix is a good one. Can the trains be established time-wise to have a commuter train and an urban train on the same line, also making sure there is a good feeder east/west bus service. Mr. Dahlberg stated that, academically, it might not be feasible to have more than three stops in Fridley. Mr. Saba stated if the bus system is set up east and west, and there are reliable pickup points on the LRT route,; he could visualize companies running van service for their employees. Ms. Sherek stated the St. Paul Company does that right now in downtown St. Paul. Because of the expansion of parking space into office space, the company established a"park and ride" lot and run buses every three minutes from 6:00-9:00 a.m. and 5:00-7:00 p.m. for employees. If light rail transit is going to be a reality, then in a development like Lake Pointe, there are some determinations that can be made as to how many employees would be commuters; and adjustments can be made in the parking requirements and things like that as far as incentives. Mr. Betzold asked what the time line is for a recommendation for urban versus commuter. Ms. Dacy stated the Committee representatives want to get some determination by February 15, 1989, so the Committees can recommend to the Anoka County Railroad Authority. At the end of February, the Anoka County Railroad Authority will then decide on the preliminary engineering phase. Ms. Dacy stated advantageous to intersections and well. if the LRT system works, it can be very City of Fridley businesses at these key provide a service to the citizens of Fridley as Ms. Sherek stated she had a real problem with a station at Columbia Arena. There is just no east/west access. Mr. Dahlberg agreed. The only reason this station location was ^ -�- ,� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. FEBRUARY 8, 1989 selected is because of the large empty parking lot. Ms. Dacy stated the alternative to Columbia Arena is a station at 81st Avenue, because there is some vacant property there now. Ms. Sherek stated the Columbia Arena station location can work if MnDOT cooperated by making a left turn directly from University Avenue with a stoplight. Mr. Kondrick stated that entering and exiting the Columbia Arena site either at 69th Avenue or 71st Avenue would create a lot of traffic. Mr. Dahlberg stated the new Immanuel Christian Center (the former Fridley Assembly of God) at Osborne Road and University Avenue has a very large parking lot, most of it unused during the day, and that might be a possibility for a station location. Ms. Dacy stated maybe the suggestion should be to reorient the Osborne Road station to commuter and the Columbia Arena station to urban, because of some of the local function it can serve and the parking it can provide. ^ Ms. Dacy stated a parkinq lot is proposed at 57th Place in the northeast corner of the intersection for 44 cars. A parking lot is also proposed in the southwest corner of the intersection between The Cattle Company and I-694 for 75 cars. She stated the Rapid Oil Station and the repair service at 57th Place is an area proposed for redevelopment. Mr. Dahlberg stated he had a fundamental problem with the way right-of-way is being used for parking. Ms. Sherek agreed. It also did not do anything for the whole urban development they are trying to accomplish through Fridley with the University Avenue Corridor improvement project. Mr. Kondrick stated he would like to see all the parking on the same side of the street as the LRT stations. Mr. Dahlberg stated maybe the Commission should recommend that if the LRT is going to run on the east side of University Avenue (or any street), any parking that accommodates the LRT station should be on the same side of the highway or street as the station and not in the right-of-way. He agreed with Ms. Sherek that this did not fit in with the University Avenue Corridor plans at all. Mr. Dahlberg suggested they look north of the old Zantigo where ^ -5- "� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. FEBRUARY 8, 1989 there is some vacant property. His point is not whether it is appropriate to have a station at any certain location, but if they are going to go through contortions to squeeze cars into little parking lots within the right-of-way, why not just purchase the necessary property to accommodate the projected parking requirements and make it work? Ms. Sherek stated that there is enough property in the redevelop- ment area at 57th Place that could be acquired for a parking lot (Rapid Oil and the old Shorty's Towing Service). Mr. Saba stated another thing they have not discussed is land- scaping and how these parking lots are going to look. They have to be very adamant about proper landscaping and lighting, and this landscaping and lighting should fit in with the University Avenue Corridor planning. Ms. Sherek stated another important thing is a telephone system in the parking lots for security and emergency reasons. Ms. Dacy stated that from this discussion, she had outlined four general principles for the route: � 1. Keep the station locations and parking lots on the same side as the LRT track. 2. Try and avoid locating the parking lots in the right-of- way to avoid an overcrowded appearance. 3. Purchase the necessary land at each station location that is needed, rather than trying the "hodge podge" approach. 4. Make the landscaping consistent with the University Avenue Corridor project. Mr. Kondrick stated another important link right now would be into Coon Rapids and Anoka because of the new proposed "Dale" shopping center at Round Lake Boulevard & Highway 10. Mr. Saba stated there is presently a bikeway/walkway along the east side of University Avenue, north of Mississippi Street. He would not want the LRT tracks jeopardizing any of the bikeway/walkway system. Mr. Kondrick stated the concern of overflow parking at the Columbia Arena site and the bikeway/walkway easement are concerns of the Parks & Recreation Commission. � -6- PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 8, 1989 ; �. Mr. Kondrick expressed concern about whether there was going to be a physical barrier/separation between the traffic lanes and the LRT track to avoid any accidents. This definitely should be considered. Mr. Dahlberg stated another important consideration is the impact on Rice Creek north of Mississippi Street. Mr. Kondrick, Mr. Saba, and Ms. Sherek did not think Highway 65/ Central Avenue is a viable route for the LRT system. Where is it going to fit down Central Avenue? They thought the system should run down University Avenue to the Burlington Northern tracks, and then on to downtown Minneapolis. Mr. Dahlberg stated if this is going to be a commuter service, then it makes sense for it to go down University Avenue. If it is going to be an urban service with as many stops as possible, then the route should go over to Central Avenue. Ms. Dacy asked if the Conunissioners thought a stop at Lake Pointe is justified. Mr. Dahlberg stated he thought the proximity from Lake Pointe to n 57th Place is within walking distance, and maybe businesses within Lake Pointe would run shuttle vans/buses for employees to and from the 57th Place station. Mr. Saba and Ms. Sherek agreed. Ms. Dacy stated that as she understood the discussion, the Commissioners were more in favor of the commuter philosophy with a minimum of three stops in Fridley. The Commission did, however, have a lot of reservations about the Columbia Arena station and would like an evaluation made of a commuter stop at Osborne Road, possibly approaching the Immanual Christian Center about a joint use of their parking lot. If a location is not feasible at Osborne Road, then a station should be considered at 83rd Avenue. Also, the Commissioners would like someone to look at the property at 57th Place for a parking lot. If the proposed redevelopment does not happen at 57th Place, then the used car lot should be evaluated for a parking lot. Ms. Sherek stated that, regarding the placement of an LRT track down Central Avenue, there just is not enough space to do that. Some of the worst intersections for traffic and accidents are in the metropolitan area. Two good examples are the Lowry/Central Avenue intersection and the Broadway/Central Avenue intersection. ^ -7- '"'� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 8. 1989 Mr. Kondrick agreed. He stated he did not think the businesses along Central Avenue will agree to "no parking" in front of their businesses to make room for an LRT track. The Commissioners agreed the station locations in Fridley should be at 57th Place, Mississippi Street, Osborne Road (preferred over Columbia Arena), and maybe 81st Avenue or 83rd Avenue. Ms. Sherek stated she did not think Immanual Christian Center is the only option at Osborne Road either. There is other vacant land just north of Osborne Road. Mr. Dahlberg stated that if Central Avenue is determined to be the route south of I-694, then they should consider that this is no longer a commuter service, but an urban service from Northtown to downtown Minneapolis. If that is the case, then maybe they should add another stop in Fridley, having a stop at 81st Avenue and Osborne. Mr. Betzold stated he really felt there is a need to have a public hearing for residents and business people. Mr. Dahlberg stated staff should express to the Anoka County Rail- � road Authority that the Commission is concerned that the process is going along and not involving the residents and business people who are the ones most directly affected by a system. Potentially, once the system is up and running, it is the cities that are going to get the flack from the residents. Mr. Betzold asked Ms. Dacy to check with the City's representatives who work with the LRT committees to find out their thinking about having a public hearing/forum, and the Commission can schedule one accordingly. Mr. Saba suggested that a public hearing be held at a central location in order to involve other communities affected such as Columbia Heights and Spring Lake Park. 2. RECEIVE JANUARY 12. 1989. HOUSING & REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY MINUTES• MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Ms. Sherek, to receive the Jan. 12, 1989, Housing & Redevelopment Authority minutes. IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPER80N BETZOLD DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIIBLY. 3, RECEIVE JANUARY 17, 1989, JOINT ENVIRONMENTAL OUALITY ^ -8- ,,"`� PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, FEBRUARY 8, 1989 COMMISSION/ENERGY COMMISSION MINUTES: MOTION by Mr. Dahlberg, seconded by Mr. Saba, to receive the Jan. 17, 1989, Joint EQC/Energy Commission minutes. IIPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED IINANIMOIISLY. r;�.��.Ii�.�`�u�� +i 4� MOTION by Mr. Kondrick, seconded by Mr. Dahlberg, to adjourn the meeting. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON BETZOLD DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE F'EBRUARY 8, 1989, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:25 P.M. Respectfully submitted, �� n Saba Reco ding Secretary n � -9-