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08/28/1972 - 00017162� �� �, , TH� MINUT�S OF THE SPECIAL POBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AOGUST 28, 1972 ' The Special Public Hearing Meeting of the Fridley City Council was convened at 7:35 P.M., August 28, 1972. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Mayor Lieb1 led the Council and the audience in saying the P.Iedge of Allegiance to the Flag. ROLL CALL. MEMBERS PRESLNT: Mittelstadt, Breider, Liebl, Utter MEMBERS ABSENT None ADOPTION OF AGENDA Mayor Liebl said there was one item to add at the end of the Meeting, which was Consideration of a Trailer Permit for Concession Stand for the Fridley Football Association. MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to adopt the Agenda as amended. Seconded by , Councilman Breider. IIpon a voice vote all ayes, Mayor Lieb1 declared the motion carried unanimously. PUBLIC HEARING ON WATER, SANITARx SEWER AND STORM SE[dER IMPROVEMENT PROJECT �102, ADDENDUM �`2 MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to waive the reading of the Notice of Hearing. Seconded by Councilman Utter. Upon a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously. The City Engineer showed the drainage dlstrict on the overhead projector and explained that the district includes both the east and west sides of East River Road, however, on the east side of East River Road the improvements are under progress now. He said he has been hesitant to suggest this complete stor�m sewer system because of the high cost of the system and the pending lawsuit against Spring Lake Park, Fridley has taken Spring Lake Park to District Court, where the judge ruled that the course the water takes is a natural flowage and has existing many many years. His ruling was not in Fridley's favor so the case is being appealed to the Supreme Court. The proposal now is to install additional pipe to take care of the problems downstream on the west side of East River Road. There are many alternates proposed by the Consulting Engineers, but whatever course is chosen, there must be relief at the East River Road and the Alden Way culverts. The Assessment Department has prepared their estimates based on the complete conduit system. Mayor Liebl said that many letters were sent out notifying people of this hearing � and that the proposals would range trom between $80,000 to $225,000. He asked how many cfs Spring Lake Park contributes into the City of Fridley. The City Engineer said that about 36% of the area of the watershed lies in Fridley and �, � SPECIAL POBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AUGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 2 � the other 64% in Spring Lake Park, therefore, the contention al1 along that they should help bear the cost of this improvement. It would be a very expensive burden to bear for only the Fridley residents. He said there is about 175 cfs coming from Spring Lake Park under University �lvenue and 350 cfs is needed as capacity to be provided under Alden Way and at present it is about 1z that amount. Mayor Liebl said this draznage district represents commercial, industrial and residential properties. The City Engineer explained that A, B, C& D are actually subdistricts, and in A, B� C there has already been some work done toward a storm sewer system, so they would receive a credit. Mayor Liebl asked the cost if the overall pro�ect is selected. The Finance Director said the estimated cost of the project is $225,000. This is in addition to the $475,000 under SS #102 and $244,000 under SS #101, for a total cost of $944,000. This work, minus the credrts ior work done in A,B & C amounts to an assessment of $5.80 per 100 square feet Area A would have an estimated assessment of $6.42; Area B, $2.25 and Area C, $5.89. Mayor Liebl asked if this formula is consistent with other storm sewer assessments and the Finance Director said yes, it is the same formula, and the same City policy. Mayor Liebl said that the Council has received a preliminary report from Comstock and Davis outlining the various proposals and asked the City Engineer to explain them to the audience. The City Engineer explained each alternate and said that the plan allowing for a relief pipe for the overflow water in Craigbrook Way � would take care of the problem, the trouble is, it is also the most expensive and without a contribution by Spring Lake Park he did not feel the property owners could bear the high rate. The most immediate need is for shoring up the banks from East River Roa3 to Alden Way to retard further erosion at a cost of $22,000 if Crty labor is used, and a relief pipe at Alden Way at a cost of $20,000. The pipe at East River Road would cost $15,000 if onen cutting is allowed or $40,000 if it has to be jacked. If this methcd is used, there would be a continual maintenance problem and would require regular attention to see that the banks did not erode further. The City Engineer continued that if the flume meLhod is used at creek level, there would be concrete sides and a metal pipe on the bottom of the creek. This would take care of the drainage but it would destroy the natural beauty of the creek. There is another problem with this method and the closed pipe in tne creek, the culvert under A1den Way is at 812� level, and during the high water zhe river level rises to 822' - 823', so in the spring the water would back up into the creek. To eliminate this problem the pipe should be installed at a higher level, and this would cost $225,000, so with that cost, it would be better to put in a closed pipe in Craigbrook Way, which would save the creek. Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer what he wculd recommend. The City Engineer said that he must xecommend the closed pipe in Craigbrook Way as the solution to the drainage problems, plus some shoring up of the banks to preserve the natural beauty of the creek. The only problem is the cost, and that is a Council prerogative. � Councilman Mittelstadt said he believed he could speak for every man and woman here tonight in saying that they don't want any part of a storm sewer assessment In this situation the State of Minnesota has allowed Spring Lake Park to bring in their water and dump it in Fridley, but they do not allow for a way to handle it. He did not believe at this time it was in order to bring in a proposal for r. SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AUGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 3 an improvement for a quarter of a million dollars when the Supreme Court case � is still pending He said the Administration should search all other State & Federal agencies for ways to obtain funds and a major system of this sort should not be undertaken until all other avenues are explored. As to the Stonybrook Creek problem, the City can help these people, there has already been $5,000 allocated to try to remedy the erosion, and 'ne was sure additional funds could be approved to save them from the spring run-off. He said he was not at this time ready to propose an assessment until everything else has been tried for those people in Ward Three. (Applause) Councilman Breider said that talking of 350 cfs potential at East River Road, and with 175 coming in from Spring Lake Park, how long under normal rates of develop- ment until that 35D cfs is reached° The Crty Engineer said it is more a matter of the duration the pipe runs ful1, with the increase in development, the duration the pipe runs full would increase. Councilman Bxeider asked if the shorzng of the banks were to continue, would that be enough to protect them in a normal spring run-off? The City Engineer said that the $225,000 project is needed, and the less money that is spent the greater the risks. Rainfall is something that cannot always be predicted, �here may be a 50 - 100 year rain and with that, the whole thing would wash out, Under normal conditions,yes, it should be all right. Mr. Earl Biermann, 7830 A1den Way, asked what was the cos� of the open conduit? The City �ngineer replied $75,000. Mr. Biermann said he would agree with Councilman Mittelstadt, lets apply for Federal and State aid. He said, look at � Duluth and questioned if we have to wait until everpthing is gone before we get help? Mayor Lieb1 asked if Fridley would be eligible. The Crty Manager said yes, however, he must offer this caution; the Federal Government works through the Housing and Urban Development offices and they place certain priori- ties on grants. Currently, grants for sanrtary sewer and water projects get a higher priority than storm sewers, mainly because of the emphasis placed on pollution control in the last few years. Councilman Mittelstadt commented that thelr attitude may change because of all the flooding this year. The City Manager agreed and said that they could only turn Fridley down if we were to apply, so nothing would be 1ost. If the possibility of losing some property could be demonstrated, it may add more emphasis. Mr. Frank Scheel, 115 Crazg Way N,E., asked where all the water was coming from. Councilman �reider said this is a large area and includes the land east ot East River Road also. They have already been assessed, but would be included in this district, and everyone in the district would pay the same rate, minus any credits. Councilman Mittelstadt asked Councilman Breider if the people in his wa�d that would be assessed were in favor of this assessment� Councilman Breider said that some of his ward has had more than their share of troubles. Elm and Beech Streets have washed out, and the maintenance people have had to go out and dig the streets back out after every rain. This is water coming from Spring Lake Park. There is srti11 a ditch between Main Street and University Avenue, and erosion is �ust as bad in thls ditch as in Stonybrook. He said he would have to agree with Councilman Mittelstadt and say "no" to this proposal. The people should , not have to pay for Spring Lake Park's water processing problems, and he would sap to go along with the open ditch in that area for as long as possible, although it is almost as bad as in the creek area. As that area gets developed, he did not see how we could wait much longer. _As to the immediate problem with Stonybrook, he thought the administration should be asked to complete the temporary =' V_ SPECIAL POBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AOGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 4 � work to stabilize the banks and also to start caork to try to get some aid with the storm sewer project. There is a Legislative session coming up, that should _ be considered and Federal funding should be looked into. He also felt Fridley should wait until the Supreme Court decision. Mr. Ed Hinden, 195 Craigbrook Way N.E., said that Areas A� B do not enter the creek, what is talked about here is water from the industrial area and Spring Lake Park. Councilman Mittelstadt said this is true, and has been all along. Areas A& C were put in by the developer and Area B was assessed under SS �52 Mr. Hinden said that it seemed that there could be some help from the County, State, Federal, Spring Lake Park, or general revenue funds. Councilman Mittelstadt said yes, that is his intention and he would like to wart until after the court ruling. There could be greater than 50'0 of the total project if Fradley was successful. Councilman Breider said there was a new State law that restricts municipalities and school boards from raising their total budget more that 6o and asked whaL effect this would have on this storm sewer proposal. The City I�Ianager replied that if the expenditure comes from general revenue funds it must fall within Lhe 6o restriction. If rt is a matter of matching Federal grant funds then lt would be exempt. Mr. Wayne Sether, 7649 East River Road, said that it has been stated that the situation will get worse, and asked to see the map on the screen again Council- man Bxeider commented that when the City Engineer talked about potential capacrty � at East River Road, that would come from the development of the industrial area and from Spring Lake Park. Mr. Sether said t]iat the construction in the industrial area is for profit, that a system would give him zero benefit, and that it is the industrial property owners that will benefit, so they should have to pay for it. Mayor Liebl said that industrial development benefits the whole City through the taxes they pay. Mr. Sether said that the industrial should have to pay their fair share instead of him being charged the same as they are. (Applause) Mayor Liebl said that the industrial property gets assessed the same square footage cost as a residential property owner. Mr. Sether asked if it was not true that the land was not developed because of the water problems and the City Engineer said yes� with proper drainage the level of deVelopment would increase. Mr. Sether said that in that case their land value would increase, but his would not. Mr. Bob Dueholm, 290 Craigbrook Way N.E., asked Zf Stonybrook Creek is shored up and maintained, will it be assessed? Councilman Mittelstadt said that the ceiling talked about is $22,000 to come from gcneral funds. Thzre has alrcady been a little over $3,000 spent. If the rest of the Council agrees, there would be no assessment. Mr. Dueholm asked if that amount of money is put into the Cre2k, then the Supreme Court rules in Fridley's favor, is that money lost� The CiLy Manager said not entirely, because even if the flota is put docan Craigbroo]< Way in a closed system, the Creek would still be mainLained for aesthetic purposes, so the shoring would be added insurance Mr. Dueholm said that with the rain the other night, the water was 7' - 10' deep going down the creek. He thought that there would be so much shoring up to do that it vaould end up being a waste of � money to chose the cheaper route. Mayor Liebl asked him if he was saying that he would prefer the permanent solution and Mr. Dueholm said yes, nobody has the right to drain water off to the detriment of other people. ��i s, SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING MEETING OF A�GUST 28, 1972 PAGE 5 Mr. Fred Anderson, 139 Rickard Rd. N.E., said he did not feel that he should be assessed because those people need help to protect their land. They chose to live there and he was opposed to spending money to protect their aesthetic value [� resident in the area said that he did not know about this trouble ten years ago, then it was �ust a nice little creek. Mr. John Dunphy, 155 Stonybrook Way, said that when he bought his house about 10 years ago, he could jump across the creek, now it is 15' across. The creek used to be about 25' from his house, now it is about 12' - 15' from his house. He questioned if Flood insurance would be an answer. The City Manager said that the Council has set a publ�c hearing in October to discuss flood insurance. The matter of where the flood plain lines are drawn is determined by the Corps of Engineers. There is information on file at City Hall on this Federal program. It is a very complicated procedure to go through and there are difficult require- ments to comply with to become eligible, that have been set out by the Federal Government. The public hea�ing is only the first of many requirements. Mr. Henrich Kent, 146 Craig Way N.E., asked who would derive the benefit and how are the district lines determined° Mayor Liebl asked the City Engineer to display the storm sewer district map and said that most districts are already assessed in Fridley. The City Engineer explained how the districts are derived and that ultimately everyone in the City of Fridley would have a storm sewer assessment, and Mayor Liebl explained the assessment procedure and the policy used by the Council since 1961. The City Manager said that in this case 64% of the drainage comes from another munic�palrty. Since 1966 Spring Lake Park has been saying this is Fridley's problem. Mrs. Mary Martin, 133 Stonybrook Way, asked if all these districts were set up in 1961`� Mayor Liebl said they were established as the improvements were made in different years based on the topography. The City Engineer explained that some- times there are subdistricts that function until the overall district goes in, then it becomes part of the larger district. In those cases the peogle that have been assessed in the subdistrict do not get as large an assessment for the whole district since they have already paid some, and their credit is based exactly on how much they have already paid. Mrs. Martin said that as the �ndustrial area develops, in three years if Fridley fails in the Supreme Court, these people will be back here for the same storm sewer hearing. Mayor Liebl told her that is entirely possible. Mr. Gary Foote, 7627 East River Road, said that he just moved into his house in October, now he sees that many people on East River Road are trying to sell their homes. He questioned if the assessment could be the reason and said that he was opposed to the assessment because he would receive no benefit. M�. LeRoy Anderson, 7581 Alden Way, said that since their own system was put in, they have not been contributin� anymore. There is now a water problem on Rzckard Road and East River Road. The City Engineer said that the County has overlaid East River Road and raised the level, and as Rickard Road drained onto East River Road, now water ponds at that intersection. P7r. Leonard Samuelson, 7800 East River Road, said that he felt he should say somethzng on behalf on the citizens in Craigway, He said he was instrumental in developing Craigway Estates and the sewer, water and storm sewer was approved by the Engineering Department, The utilities were built by the developer and the cost of these utilities were included in the price of the lots that were sold. , , ' SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING MEETING OF 9UGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 6 � Areas A& S do not participate in the creek drainage, C& D do There have been many hearings held on behalf of the industrial areas east of the trac]<s. There has been no provision for taking care of downstream bank erosion in L-hose dis- tricts. That area east of East River Road and over to University Avenue should undertake some participation for the protection of the banks downstream in the area west of East River Road, because the people in Craigway Estates are part oi a self-supporting system. Mayor Liebl asked Mr. Samuelson if, at the time Craigway Estates was platted and developed, there was a covenant stating that the City recognized the system as a full storm sewer system with a full assessment� Mr. Samuelson said that the Council did recognize it as a fu11 self-supporting system. Mayor Liebl asked if there was a document to that effect and Mr. Samuelson answered he was not sure, he would have to look. The discussion at that time, in 1959 & 1960, was that there would be no further storm sewer assessment in future years. Councilman Mittelstadt said that the Council has heard many comments tonight on who should be assessed. The people west of East River Road say they have a self- supporting system and he would recommend that they not lie assessed. This would increase the cost to the rest of the district on the east side of East River Road, but this Council is going to fight for other funds, so those people on the east side of East River Road possibly would have very little assessment. Mr. Dick Harris asked how much more the people on the east side would have to � pay if the people on the west side of East River Road were left out The Tinance Director replied about 1/3 more over and above what has been paid on previous projecis. Mr. Harris asked the City Attorney, supposing the people along Stony- brook had a drainage easement � this went to courL-, what would a court rule° This is a natural drainage way, water ran there before, and it does not make any difference how much water is put through there. He wondered i� this pro�ect was ordered in, what the opinion of the courts would be on whether the people on the west side should participate. The City Attorney said he could not say what the court would ru1e, but if he was Mr. Harris' attorney, he would raise the question. Mr. Samuelson commented that whatever solution is chosen, he would hope it would not be over-engineered to the point where the natural beauty of the creek is lost. MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to close the public hearing on SS&SW �102, Addendum #2. Seconded by Councilman Utter. Upon a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously and the hearing closed at y 23 PM RECESS Mayor Lieb1 declared a recess at 9.23 PM and the Meeting was reconvened at 9:45 PM. CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL OF COST PARTICIPATION FOR TRAFFIC SIGNAL AT 37TH AVENUE AND EAST RIVER ROAD: � MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to approve the recommendation on Pages �2 - #2C and instruct that the formal agreement be brought back for Council authori- zation for signing. Seconded by Councilman Utter. f? C�, � � SPECIAL POBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AUGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 7 The City Engineer reported that the cost of the signal is estimated at $24,000 � of which Fridley would pay only $6,000 plus engineering costs. THE VOTE UPON THE MOTION, being a voice vote, a11 ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously. CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL OF AGREEMENT FOR COST PARTICIPATION WITH ANOKA COUNTY FOR ROAD & UTILITY IMPROVEM�NTS IN THE AREA OF EAST RIVER ROAD & MISSISSIPPI STREET: (S.P. 02-601-16) P70TION by Councilman Mittelstadt to approve the agreement as found on Pages #3A through #3D. Seconded by Councilman Breider for discussion. Councilman Breider asked in Number 5, does this mean that Fridley zs to pay after the estimate is received or after the work is completed� The City Engineer replied that this agreement is the normal language used. The share the City will pay is a very small part of the total project. Fridley will pay a little over $12,000 on a$200,000 project, and less than $8,000 is for the extension of water and sewer lines. Councilman Breider also questioned the wording in Item #6, it seems Fridley does not have anything to say about it. The City Engineer said that so far the work is with estimate costs and when the contract is let the costs will hopefully be lower. Fridley's share is less than 60 of the project and he felt 'the City did very well. Fridley is responsible for putting in the utilrties so that East River Road will not have to be torn up later. Councilman Breider said that everywhere else the County needs the City's concurrance except in this item. � The City Engineer said that he has also received a letter from Anoka County`s Consulting Engineers and passed out copies to the Council. He added that the plans could not be changed liow because they have been approved by the State. THE VOTE UPON THE MOTION, being a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor Lieb1 declared the motion carried unanimously. MOTION by Councilman Breider to receive the communication from Lawrence Gardner, P.E., of Bather, Ringrose, Wolsfeld, Inc. dated August 16, 1972. Seconded by Councilman Mrttelstadt. Upon a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously. CONSI➢ERATION OF APPROVAL OF PLAN FOR SUBSTRUCTURE FOR 44TH AVENUE RAILROAD OVER- PASS The City Engineer showed the plans on the easel and said this was for the overpass between Main Street and East River Road in the vicinity of 44th Avenue. Burlington Northern has agreed they would pay 100% of the cost of the improvement within the limits of their right of way and also the approaches. One of the conditions set was that the plans would have to be approved by the City Council before commence- ment of construction. He said he has received copies of letters from Anoka County and the State Highway Department approving the design of these plans. This plan is the same they submitted in 1969 and is a11 industrial property. MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to approve the plans for the substructure for � ihe 44th Avenue Overpass by Burlington Northern Railroad. Seconded by Councilman Otter. Upon a voice vote, al1 ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously. / ei SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AUGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 8 � CONSIDERATION OF TRAILER PERMIT FOR CONCESSION STAND FOR FRIDLEY FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION. Mr. Gary 0'Dell said that the Fridley Football Association would like a permit for a trailer to be used as a concession stand to sell coffee, pop, etc There would be no liquor and the trailer would be 8' X 18'. He said their organization started seven years ago, is a non-profit organization, and they have supported themselves by the boys selling various things, and they hope this wi11 support them. They are putting in an electric scoreboard this year. MOTION by Councilman Breider to approve the trailer permit and the concession license contingent upon the approval of the Inspection Department. Seconded by Councilman Mittelstadt. Upon a voice vot e all ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously. CONSIDERATION OF IMMEDIATE RELIEF FOR STONYBROOK CREEK RESIDENTS Councilman Mittelstadt asked the Crty Manager what rt would take to continue work on Stonybrook Creek utilizing City personnel The City Manager answered $22,000 for the shoring up the banks, not the culverts. Councilman Mittelstadt said that since $5,000 has already been allocated there should be another $17,000 provided The Finance Director said that there is about $45,000 to $50,000 in the unallocated reserve portion of the budget, Uut that cannot all be spent because of tne possib- ility of a severe snowstorm before the first of Lhe year, or some other emergency. � Another possiblity would be to borrow from the special assessment revolv�ng fund. This is used to finance improvements until they become part of an actual project. This money would then have to be paid back at the time the actual project went in. Mayor Liebl said that whatever is spent on the creek, Lhe culvert must also be fixed, or it would be wasting money. The City Engineer said that in Project #102 there is some money for some downstream work. His recommendation would be to authorize the Administration to spend up to $22,000 and come back with some plans for the financing of the work. He strongly felt that the culvert has to be fixed. Mayor Liebl asked if, with the $22,000 the creek banks could be stabilized, and would it be moving toward a permanent solution. The City Engineer said it would be a temporary solution, but we cannot 7ust sit and do nothing. It would be at least moving in the right direction, but he could not guarantee it would not wash away. The City Manager agreed and cautioned not to expect miracles with railroad ties. There could always be flash flooding and you could end up with nothing The City Attorney said that when talking in terms of bank stabilization he thought it should be from General Funds rather than assessed. He did not feel there could be a special assessment for a tempora�y solution then in 2- 3 years assess again for a permanent solution. MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to direct the City Administration to move ahead with the bank stabilization and to return on September llth with a funding plan. Also to direct that the culvert under Alden Way be improved to eliminate the � flooding every spring. Seconded by Councilman Breider. I't was pointed out that there should be some monetary ceiling on the work expressed in 'the motion, even though the money has been discussed in the general discussion. 7 [''- � _ SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING MEETING OF AUGUST 28, 1972 PAGE 9 MOTION AMENDED by Councilman Mittelstadt to place a ceiling on the rejuvenation , project for Stonybrook Creek at $22,000 totaL Seconded by Councilman Breider. Upon a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the amendment carried unanimously. THE VOTE UPON THE MOTION, being a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor LieUl declared the motion carried unanimously. COMMUNICATIONS RICHARD H. FUDALI, MEADOW RUN APARTMENTS OBJECTION TO ASSESSMENT FOR SS#i02. MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to receive the communication from Mr. Richard Fudali dated August 28, 1972. Seconded by Councilman Breider. Upon a voice vote, al1 ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion carried unanimously. ADSOURNMENT MOTION by Councilman Mittelstadt to ad7ourn the Meeting. Seconded by Council- man Breider. Upon a voice vote, all ayes, Mayor Liebl declared the motion aarried unanimously and the Special Public Hearing City Council Meeting of August 28, 1972 adjourned at 10:30 P.M. Respectfully submitted, r'\ ' 1 ��� ��� ��� � Juel A. Mercer Frank G. Liebl Secretary to the City Council Mayor L.__I