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PLM 11/20/2019 FRIDLEY PLANNING COMMISSION WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2019 7:00 P.M. FRIDLEY CIVIC CAMPUS, COUNCIL CHAMBERS 7071 UNIVERSITY AVENUE N.E. MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Kondrick called the Planning Commission Meeting to order at 6:59 p.m. ROLL CALL PRESENT:David Kondrick, Mike Heintz, Mark Hansen, Brad Sielaff, Ryan Evanson,Leroy Oquist, and Terry McClellan OTHERS PRESENT: Stacy Stromberg, Planner Scott Hickok, Community Development Director Clay Dutra, 3415 Elliot Avenue South, Mpls Terry McClellan, Brigadoon, Flannery Park neighborhood Pam Reynolds, 1241 Norton Avenue Matthew Brown, 7661 Brigadoon Place Patty Fowler, 1437 Meadowmoore Drive Jim Hammerbeck, 549 Bennett Drive Roger Stene, 870 Pandora Drive Richard Young, 5695 Quincy Street Debra Patchin, 280 Rice Creek Boulevard Amber Hendrickson, 1538 Rice Creek Road Steve Warnke, 1580 Rice Creek Road Jim Golden, 6701 Overton Drive APPROVE MINUTES September 18, 2019 Motion by Commissioner Heintz to approve the minutes. Seconded by Commissioner Sielaff. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. PUBLIC HEARING: 1. Consideration of a Transit Oriented Development Master Plan, TOD #19-01, by In Gauge Engineering & Technology Inc., to allow the construction of a second multi-family building, generally located at 105 58 th Avenue. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 2 of 28 MOTION by Commissioner Oquist to open the public hearing. Seconded by Commissioner Hansen. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS OPENED AT 7:02 P.M. Stacy Stromberg, Planning Manager, stated the petitioner is requesting this transit- oriented development master plan to allow the construction of a second multi-family apartment building along the southern property line of the subject property. Ms. Stromberg stated the subject property is zoned S-1, Hyde Park Neighborhood. In 1976 the City Council created this Overlay district which applied only to the properties located between Main Street and University Avenue and 57 th Place and 61 st Avenue. At that time this area of the City was a mixture of uses: single-family residential, duplexes, multi-family and commercial properties. The purpose of the overlay district was to recognize the mix of uses that existed at that time and to no longer permit commercial properties within the Hyde Park district. Ms. Stromberg stated the subject property is located on the corner of Main Street and 58 th Avenue. It is a 7-unit apartment building which was constructed in 1960, and the detached garage building was constructed in 1975. Ms. Stromberg stated in 2011, the Planning Commission and Council approved a TOD Overlay District, which includes the Hyde Park Neighborhood. The purpose of the TOD Overlay is: encourage dense, mixed use, pedestrian-friendly development within a one- half mile of the Northstar Commuter Rail Station in Fridley, create multi-modal connections to the Fridley Northstar Commuter Rail Station that allow for safe access to the station no matter what means of transportation someone uses, create a neighborhood identity with the Northstar Station that promotes the use of mass transit, human interactions, safety and livability, reduce automobile dependency by locating a variety of land uses within a half mile of the train station, and provide life cycle housing for people of different income levels and housing space needs within one half mile of the train station. Ms. Stromberg stated the petitioner approached City staff earlier this year with the idea of adding another multi-family building to the property. Overall there was support of the idea as it achieves what the TOD Overlay is trying to accomplish by creating more density, where buildings are closer to the street and people are closer to transit and commercial without reliance on a car. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 3 of 28 Ms. Stromberg stated as a result, the petitioner submitted a TOD Master Plan application to allow the construction of a 3-story, 9-unit multi-family apartment building south of the existing 2-story, 7-unit apartment building. There will be 3 one-bedroom units and 6 two- bedroom units in the new building and the existing building has 6 one- bedroom units and 1 two-bedroom unit. There will be a total of 16 apartments on the property. Ms. Stromberg stated currently there are 15 parking stalls on site, including a 7-car garage. Eight additional stalls will be constructed for a total of 23 stalls. Ms. Stromberg stated landscaping, storm water treatment, and the exterior of the existing building will be remodeled to match the new building will also be a part of this development project. Ms. Stromberg stated for a TOD project to be approved there are a list of standards within the Zoning Code the applicant needs to meet in order to allow for the development to occur. Those standards relate to lot coverage, setback, height, façade articulation, parking, landscaping, sidewalks, and lighting. Ms. Stromberg stated within the Planning Commission’s packet there is a list of regulations in a table format. She didn’t want to go through each of them tonight because there are 20-25 but wanted the Commission to know that the petitioner is complying with all the standards even though it was difficult considering the location of the existing buildings on the site. Ms. Stromberg stated she did want to highlight 2 of the regulations related to setbacks and sidewalks. The setback on 58 th Avenue is about 1 foot from the property line. The TOD Overlay allows the building to go right up to the property line. For example, the buildings at Cielo are 5 feet from the property line and there is a 28-foot right-of-way there. So, there is about 33 feet from the curb to the Cielo building. In this case there is about a 10-foot boulevard so the building will be approximately 11 feet from the curb. Ms. Stromberg stated staff has had an internal discussion about sidewalks. The City requires all projects within the TOD to have sidewalks constructed along the property lines that abut a roadway. In this location there are no connections on either side of the property. It makes more sense for the City to collect the funds that would be required to construct the sidewalk, put it into an account that would then be used within the TOD district at which time the sidewalk makes sense and is actually going to lead somewhere, as opposed to just starting and then stopping at the property line and not bringing you anyplace. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 4 of 28 Ms. Stromberg stated staff does recommend approval as it does meet all the standards that are laid out in the TOD Overlay, and it does meet the Comprehensive Plan goals. Staff does recommend that if the master plan is approved, the following stipulations be attached: 1.The property shall be developed in accordance with the site plan submitted for “Main Street Apartments II”, page A-102, by In Gauge Engineering and Technology, dated revision: 10/30/2019. 2.The exterior building elevations shall be developed in accordance with the architectural exterior elevations sheet submitted for “Main Street Apartments II, page A-104, by In Gauge Engineering and Technology, dated revision: 10/30/2019. 3.The petitioner shall meet all requirements set forth by: a.The Building Code b.The Fire Code c.The City’s Engineering department – related to grading, drainage, storm pond maintenance agreement, utilities, and utility connection fees d.The City’s Planning department – related to irrigation, landscaping, signage, and the TOD Overlay Zoning District 4.All parking for tenants and visitors shall occur on-site. The Property Management Company or Property Owner is responsible for controlling tenant parking spot designation and enforcing City code requirements related to parking. If street parking becomes an issue, staff may require additional parking be installed on the property. 5.The petitioner shall pay sidewalk construction costs at time of building permit submittal. Costs submitted will be put in a TOD sidewalk account created by the City to be used when applicable. 6.A building permit to remodel the exterior of the existing apartment building and garage shall be submitted at the same time as the building permit for the new building. Commissioner Hansen asked whether the applicant has contemplated where that additional parking will be constructed in the event that it becomes necessary? Ms. Stromberg replied, that is a good question. It is a conversation she has not had with him since he has gotten copy of the staff report. It is a relatively nice-sized lot. She does believe there would be a way for them to pick up additional parking if they needed to. Commissioner Hansen stated it looks like there would be space for some spots adjacent to that entrance off Main Street. If they are planning on doing a rain garden or something like that as part of this project, he would not want it to impact that. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 5 of 28 Ms. Stromberg replied, they have submitted their plans to the Engineering Department, so they are aware of the grading and drainage requirements. Commissioner Hansen asked whether the City would ever consider extending the sidewalk further to 61 st to then intersect with eventually the transit station right in that same area, just as a separate project. Maybe astandalone project, assuming it would probably be a while before any of those other properties redevelop. Ms. Stromberg replied, that is the idea. Staff would love to see a sidewalk on the east side of Main Street, as there is one already on the west side. Further connections to the train station is the plan. If constructed right now it would be as long as the lot and would stop right at the next property. It doesn’t seem it would be the best way to spend the money. Commissioner Hansen stated he sees the rationale in the escrow. He worries it would be a while before the sidewalk ever becomes a reality. Ms. Stromberg replied, it could be but maybe there is an extension somewhere else that makes more sense within the TOD. Those are the things that will need to be evaluated because the money will need to be used within the TOD district. Commissioner Oquist stated as to the parking area that is to the east of the building, do they get to that parking area through the alley? Ms. Stromberg replied, yes. Commissioner Oquist asked whether there is any consideration of vacating that alley? Ms. Stromberg replied, that is a discussion they did have when the applicant came in and met with the staff. There are a couple of properties to the north that do use that alley. To vacate it they would need to then access their properties off 2 nd Street. Commissioner Heintz asked, who plows that out? Scott Hickok, Community Development Director, stated the City’s policy is it plows alleys that go all the way through. If there is an alley that stops three-quarters of the way through the block, then it is the owner’s responsibility to take care of that. Commissioner Heintz asked, what happens in the wintertime when they plow the alley and we get 12-18 inches of snow. They are going to block those cars in. He is worried Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 6 of 28 there is enough parking because if the applicant rents out four apartments that have two cars each, he has used up his 8 spots. Is the applicant going to keep the other 5 apartments empty? Mr. Hickok replied, they have had that discussion with the owner. Ideally the City likes to have more parking that is more like the parking on the north side of the existing building. However, there are some certain considerations that need to be given when you come in directly off from an alley. Mr. Hickok stated as to the Commissioner’s question about the sidewalk going to the north, that is one of the issues where there is also parking in a similar fashion that comes directly out to Main Street that would make a sidewalk difficult to continue it to the north until those blocks would redevelop. Commissioner Heintz asked, where else in the City is there a 1-foot setback? Ms. Stromberg replied, they don’t. This would be the first. Commissioner Heintz stated so they are setting a new precedent then? Ms. Stromberg replied, the TOD Overlay allows buildings to go right up to the property line. It is not like a variance is being sought or anything, so a precedence isn’t be set. These conditions are allowed in this zoning overlay district. Commissioner Heintz asked, when the owner redoes the outside of the existing building, does that have to then come up to ADA code, too? Ms. Stromberg replied, no, not to just fix up the exterior. Commissioner Heintz stated it sounds like he is not going to just fix it. It is going to be torn off and replaced to match the new stuff. Mr. Hickok replied, he is not sure exactly what Commissioner Heintz’s question is but he will say the intent is to create an image of the existing building that matches the architecture on the new building with exterior building type, etc. When you get into accessibility issues is when you spend a certain amount of money on the building, then one-quarter of that expenditure goes into accessibility enhancements. Certainly they need to be aware of that. The exterior enhancements on this building would generate very little in terms of additional demand for accessibility improvements here. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 7 of 28 Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. Hickok whether the new building will have an elevator in it? Mr. Hickok replied, no, they are walk-up units. Commissioner McClellan asked, and it may not be fair, but what are the parking regulations currently on Main Street in that general area? Is that a No Parking street or is there parking available? Ms. Stromberg replied, the east side is marked for No Parking. Commissioner Hansen asked whether it is actually the west side that is No Parking. He drove by the site today and it did appear you can park on the east side going northbound and then you have the bike lane, and on the other side you have the sidewalk and the bike lane. Commissioner Sielaff stated as far as parking on the site, all the new parking stalls are not going to be enough for this new apartment. There is parking north of the existing apartment, correct? So how are people going to get from those stalls to the new apartment building? Ms. Stromberg replied, just to go over parking a little bit. For the two buildings combined, the R-3 zoning code would require 28 stalls. The applicant is proposing 23 so they are deficient by 5. The S-1, Hyde Park zoning district requires 16 stalls; and they are at 23. The purpose of the TOD is to allow less cars, less parking which needs to be managed by the management company so the parking is used as it should be. In other words, they can’t lease a one-bedroom apartment to two people who have 2 or 3 cars. Commissioner Sielaff stated and they can always add more parking if it becomes a problem. Ms. Stromberg replied, correct. Commissioner Sielaff asked whether there will be assigned parking spots here? The concern he has is for people who do not park on the east side, because not all of them would be able to, and they have to park north, how are they going to get to from that lot to their apartment? Ms. Stromberg replied, that is a discussion she did have with the petitioner. She referred to the map displayed and stated they do plan to install a sidewalk from the parking area on the north to the sidewalk that leads to the new building. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 8 of 28 Commissioner Evanson asked, do they have an idea what the rents might be in the new place and how that compares to rents of other properties in the area? Ms. Stromberg replied, that is a good question and she is sure the petitioner would be better to answer that question. Commissioner Heintz stated as to landscaping it states they are supposed to have 12 trees and have 5 right now. Ms. Stromberg replied, correct, staff has since received an updated plan that shows the 10 trees required because there is one existing tree that will be kept and that counts for 2. Commissioner Heintz asked, are any of those trees where the sidewalk is intended to go? Ms. Stromberg replied, the plans shows a few shrubs which will have to be relocated. Commissioner Heintz asked, they are not counting shrubs as trees are they? Ms. Stromberg replied, no, they just count trees. Commissioner Oquist asked Mr. Stromberg if she said there are assigned parking spots? Ms. Stromberg replied, she does not know that, but the petitioner could answer that question. Commissioner Oquist stated he can see where there could be a conflict in the parking areas. Ms. Stromberg replied, she understands his concerns as they have seen this with the City’s other multi-family development in its TOD overlay. Cielo has had some growing pains with their parking situation and is why when these gentlemen came in, staff had a really good conversation with him about how they need to manage their parking. If they sign a lease with somebody because they want to fill that unit, but they have 4 cars, then there is a problem. It comes down to managing the site. Chairperson Kondrick stated they do not want any cars on the street. Commissioner Oquist stated he was also thinking about the conflict between the buildings. The people in the existing building are used to parking there and they now have this new building where there is going to be a fight over parking stalls. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 9 of 28 Commissioner Evanson stated he imagines this might be a blueprint for other similar lots where there is excess space and other new construction can occur on. He asked if this is a blueprint for future development or does staff imagine this to be more of a one-off opportunity given the dimensions of this particular lot? Ms. Stromberg replied, that is a good question. There are very few lots of this size in the Hyde Park zoning district, but it is getting at the intent of what the City was wanting to see in the TOD overlay. She can see other lots that are of the same size may be able to accomplish something similar. She believes it could happen elsewhere, but not real likely. Commissioner Heintz asked how many handicap spots are there? Three? Ms. Stromberg replied, three. Commissioner Heintz stated if they do not have a handicap person parking there, they are down to 20 spots. Ms. Stromberg replied, by State law they are only required to have one parking stall for the whole development. One for every 25 stalls. They could reduce the amount of handicap parking stalls that they have. Commissioner Hansen stated in the report it talks about the trash and the recycling collection and that it is enclosed currently. He asked if that is expected to also serve this additional building or should it be contemplated how that might need to expand and how that might then potentially impact future parking stalls that may become necessary? Ms. Stromberg replied, she would guess that it would need to be expanded based on 9 additional units. They already have the location southeast of the existing garages. Chairperson Kondrick asked whether that is going to consume another parking spot? Ms. Stromberg replied, as of now, no; but it would take up potential room for a stall if one needed to be added at a later date. Commissioner Sielaff asked what does storm water treatment mean for this site? Ms. Stromberg replied, she believed it is under an acre so not a whole lot is going to be required. Commissioner Hansen stated according to the report they are doing some infiltration basins or rain gardens. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 10 of 28 Ms. Stromberg replied, correct. Clay Dutra, 3415 Elliot Avenue South, Minneapolis, stated he is the developer and representing the owner. As to how much the owner is planning to charge, right now she is charging about $1,000-$1,100 for the two bedrooms. Six units in the new building are going to be two bedrooms so she is planning to charge $1,200 and a little bit less for the one-bedroom units. Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. Dutra whether they are going to have any problems with designating parking stalls for the parking that is available. Mr. Dutra stated he did not believe they are going to any problems because as of right now, five stalls are being used for seven apartments. Some of the tenants living there now already do not have cars. He believes the intent of the TOD Overlay is to reduce the number of cars. They are trying to supply some parking but, want to believe they are not going to need it. They are going to supply some parking for bikes too and would be more open to that then to add more car spaces. If they do have to construct more spaces, they do have room on the side of both buildings. Commissioner Sielaff asked whether the lease is going to have restrictions on the number of parking spots? What would that be? Mr. Dutra replied, yes, it is one per unit. They are going to have the other ones left for visitors and they mark them so its organized. Chairperson Kondrick stated one of the Commission members asked where the applicant will be placing recycling and garbage containers. He asked Mr. Dutra if they have thought about provisions for that and, if so, where? Mr. Dutra replied, it is going to be around the same spot where they have it now. They are just going to extend towards the alley. Chairperson Kondrick asked, by the new building or the old building? Mr. Dutra replied, it is by the garage, in the northeast corner of the lot. There is a big maple tree there and it is kind of under the radius of that tree, and then they have space to extend to the east side to be able to fit another container. The enclosure is already big so the container they have there is smaller than the space they have so they would have to add a little more of the enclosure to be able to fit another one. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 11 of 28 Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. Dutra if they have had a chance to review the stipulations? If so, do they concur and do they have any problems with them? Mr. Dutra replied, he did review and agrees with all of them. Chairperson Kondrick asked how are the dollars going to be accumulated for the building of the sidewalk? Mr. Dutra replied, they have not discussed that yet, but he is sure the City has stipulated what it would cost by linear feet to build the sidewalk and then they will just go with that. Chairperson Kondrick asked how will the City know when they have the money to do that? Mr. Dutra replied, as soon as the building permit is approved they are going to start right away. They are trying to break ground before it freezes as financing is already in place. As soon as they have the permits, they will submit the funds for the sidewalk. Chairperson Kondrick asked if they go along with this can the City have provisions to make sure the applicant has the dollars available ahead of time to make sure a sidewalk can be provided? Do they have the power to do that? Ms. Stromberg replied, yes, they will require that money be put in the account at building permit time. When the building permit is issued, they will submit the money to the City. Commissioner McClellan asked who takes care of the snow removal on the sidewalks on the perimeter? Mr. Dutra replied, it is the management company who takes care of it. The issue about plowing the alley and if there is incredible snow there, they already have that issue in their own parking lot. There is a plow that comes out and leaves the snow plow right behind the cars so then they by hand clean the snow. The management company will take care of that. MOTION by Commissioner Sielaff to close the public hearing. Seconded by Commissioner Hansen. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS CLOSED AT 7:39 P.M. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 12 of 28 Commissioner Heintz stated he understands dense and then there is 15 pounds of beans in a 10 pound bag. He thinks they are getting close that that. He does not know if he is sold on this project yet. Commissioner Hansen stated he is struggling with it as well. He pulled up on Main Street this afternoon and tried to envision where the second building will be and how close it will be in relation to the existing one, and it seems like they thought through most of the issues and the challenges and they responded to the City’s concerns and he is for this type of use. He is a little concerned that it may be a while before any sidewalks get constructed on Main Street for those people who live here and not have a car and want to get to the transit station. He guessed they can just cross the street and go on the west side as well. He does just feel like it’s a lot of buildings in a small area. Commissioner Sielaff stated he has similar concerns. They are trying to shoe horn something in here that is difficult to do. His main concern is, and he agrees with Commissioner Hansen, is that there does not appear to be a lot of room for that second apartment building. He is inclined to vote against it. Commissioner Oquist stated he agrees with what has been said. He drove by the property and shoehorn is a good term. He does not know how you can put a three-story apartment building in that same area and still have all the parking. He is inclined to go against it as well. Commissioner McClellan stated going back to options that are available for additional parking and would there be an arbitrary number that would satisfy the Commission, another five spaces? Would that help, is parking the fundamental issue? Commissioner Oquist stated to him it is an issue no doubt, but it is also about putting the new building in that small spot and the one-foot setback he just cannot visualize it. Commissioner Hansen stated that is his concern as well. It is not about the parking necessarily, it is just the proximity and the setback and how this building is going to look right on top of the existing one and what they are going to do to the existing one which is not particularly clear to make it look similar. Commissioner McClellan stated not if the new building was a two-story instead of a three-story, does that change people’s minds? Commissioner Heintz stated for him, it’s the largeness of the footprint. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 13 of 28 Commissioner Evanson stated the purpose of the TOD is to be able to utilize spaces like this. He understands it looks like a cramped space, but it was designed with the intent of being able to do that so you can take advantage of these opportunities. You may be attracting the type of tenant who is not as concerned about the parking. With the proximity to the commuter line and the proximity of other major thoroughfares down into the metropolitan area, he presumes those types of tenants may want to live here. Also given that there is already not full utilization of the parking area, it would seem to him there is enough mitigating factors where parking concerns would be less prominent, given the transportation amenities. Commissioner Evanson stated as far as the way the property looks on here, do they have any insights from the community? Obviously the property owner themselves are comfortable with it, but do they know about the tenants from the existing building, people in the neighborhood? Neighborhoods change, appearances change, and they cannot be afraid of having a space that looks a little bit different. There are other places in the metropolitan area like this. This might be the first in this location, but is that something that they are hearing a strong response opposing it? He does not see anyone here in the crowd objecting to it or has come to object. A lack of objection does not mean support, and he understands that, but what do they know about what the community thinks? Commissioner McClellan asked if there were any neighbors in the audience? Chairperson Kondrick stated they gave them a chance to talk and no one seems to be objecting to this. If there were a lot of people objecting, he might be willing to change his vote, but he agrees with commissioner Evanson. This district is zoned for this type of use. He wishes it was only two stories which would kind of alleviate a lot of different things. This is a special district and the petitioner is meeting all the conditions. It has been that way now for how many years? Ms. Stromberg replied, eight years. Chairperson Kondrick stated he understands the other Commissioners’ point of view but he agrees with Mr. Evanson that is what this district is designed for. It offers something different and people who are moving into area will be moving here for that reason. Commissioner McClellan stated if this is currently underutilized and will likely stay that way, if not further developed. He agrees with the premise that this TOD is intended to increase density, increase utilization, and decrease traffic by making transit more usable. It may not be an ideal layout but, again, if it is not going to be done now, he is not sure when it would be done and by whom. He would tend to vote for the approval of the project. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 14 of 28 Commissioner Oquist stated he could vote, yes, for it as well but he is still concerned about putting that kind of a building in that small of a space. Commissioner Hansen stated he agrees. He is actually looking more in favor of this but is still concerned about how it is going to fit and how it is going to look. He agrees with some of the things with the TOD and the goals this is trying to achieve. Commissioner Heintz stated what percentage of density do they need to put on that lot. To take that whole front yard. To him it is just a little bit too big for that area. Parking is just part of it. He is more concerned about the 11 feet between the buildings. They have not even talked about emergencies and that type of thing. Chairperson Kondrick asked, how far is it from one building to the next? Ms. Stromberg replied, there is 11 feet between the two. Commissioner Heintz stated they have not talked about emergencies and accessing with the firemen ladders and things like that. Chairperson Kondrick stated the fire department has seen the plant and have decided there is no problem with getting trucks in there and hoses. Commissioner Evanson stated when creating these parameters they probably made some of these considerations in advance. As far as safety, the fire and police and everybody else, that has already seen the design. Really it is kind of a matter do they like the way this looks and the way it might change the character of the neighborhood. Again, they created the TOD with the intent and perhaps the hope that it would change the look and the character of the neighborhood. If not now, when, and are they inviting this type of development by doing this or are they going to be pushing away development they originally wanted when they created this overlay district. Chairperson Kondrick stated once the old building is updated, they will look the same? That is the intent? Ms. Stromberg replied, comparable. Similar materials and roofline. MOTION by Commissioner McClellan to approve the Transit Oriented Development Master Plan, TOD #19-01, by In Gauge Engineering & Technology Inc., to allow the construction of a second multi-family building, generally located at 105 58 th Avenue with the following stipulations: Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 15 of 28 1. The property shall be developed in accordance with the site plan submitted for “Main Street Apartments II”, page A-102, by In Gauge Engineering and Technology, dated revision: 10/30/2019. 2. The exterior building elevations shall be developed in accordance with the architectural exterior elevations sheet submitted for “Main Street Apartments II, page A-104, by In Gauge Engineering and Technology, dated revision: 10/30/2019. 3, The petitioner shall meet all requirements set forth by: a. The Building Code b. The Fire Code c. The City’s Engineering department – related to grading, drainage, storm pond maintenance agreement, utilities, and utility connection fees d. The City’s Planning department – related to irrigation, landscaping, signage, and the TOD Overlay Zoning District 4. All parking for tenants and visitors shall occur on-site. The Property Management Company or Property Owner is responsible for controlling tenant parking spot designation and enforcing City code requirements related to parking. If street parking becomes an issue, staff may require additional parking be installed on the property. 5. The petitioner shall pay sidewalk construction costs at time of building permit submittal. Costs submitted will be put in a TOD sidewalk account created by the City to be used when applicable. 6. A building permit to remodel the exterior of the existing apartment building and garage shall be submitted at the same time as the building permit for the new building. Seconded by Commissioner Evanson. UPON A VOICE VOTE, WITH COMMISSIONERS HEINTZ AND SIELAFF VOTING NAY, AND COMMISSIONERS HANSEN, OQUIST, MCCLELLAN, EVANSON AND CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED ON A 5 TO 2 VOTE. ACCEPTANCE OF MINUTES FROM OTHER COMMISSIONS – THROUGH ONE MOTION: 1. August 1, 2019, Housing and Redevlopment Authority Commission 2. September 5, 2019, Housing and Redevlopment Authority Commission 3. September 3, 2019, Parks & Recreation Commission 4. October 7, 2019, Parks & Recreation Commission Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 16 of 28 5. September 10, 2019, Environment Quality & Energy Commission 6. October 8, 2019, Environment Quality & Energy Commission MOTION by Commissioner Heintz accepting the above minutes. Seconded by Commissioner Sielaff. UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. OTHER BUSINESS: 1. Discussion related to on street parking and Commission recommendation. Pam Reynolds, 1241 Norton Avenue, stated she believed Commissioner McClellan should recuse himself as he is the one who generated the discussion on this issue and is not fair for him to be sitting with the Commission when he has already put his two cents’ worth in to the Council. Ms. Stromberg stated the purpose of this portion of the meeting is for the Planning Commission to have a discussion related to on-street parking and then to receive feedback from people, gather information, and make a recommendation to the City Council. Ms. Stromberg stated she is going to go through what the City Code says related to on- street parking and then off-street parking. The on-street parking Code says that vehicles can be parked on the street they just need to be moved every 24 hours. In the winter months, between November 1 and April 1, the City does not allow vehicles to be parked on the street from 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. In the winter months street parking is not allowed if it will impede a snow plow from removing the snow from the road and the on-street parking Code says that loading and unloading of motor homes and travel trailers is allowed no more than two non-consecutive 24-hour time periods in seven days. Ms. Stromberg stated as to off-street parking the City allows one commercial vehicle on a residential lot provided the owner lives at the property, the vehicle is parked on hard surface, and the engine does not create noise that violates the noise ordinance, and that the vehicle is 10 feet from the property line. Recreational vehicles can be parked on residential lots in the driveway if they are on a hard surface. A trailer, a camping trailer, or a boat, if they are unmotorized, can be parked in the side or rear yard on the grass. Ms. Stromberg stated the Police Department did a little research related to what other cities allow, and cities that have a year-around on-street ordinance (meaning, no overnight parking) are: Coon Rapids, Mounds View, New Brighton, Ramsey, Maplewood, and Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 17 of 28 Robbinsdale. Cities that have a winter on-street ordinance, such as Fridley, are: Arden Hills, Columbia Heights, Spring Lake Park, Lino Lakes, Blaine, Cottage Grove, Little Canada, and Vadnais Heights. Cities that are relaxed on their parking ordinance are Osseo, Roseville, Hopkins, and Elk River. Ms. Stromberg stated all cities do have provision when it comes to not parking on the street for snow removal. Fridley falls in the middle in how strict we are related to parking on the street. Ms. Stromberg stated the purpose of tonight is to get feedback from the Planning Commission. Do they have concerns about this, have they received complaints, should staff leave the ordinance as it is, maybe amend the ordinance to prohibit on-street parking between the hours of 2 and 6 year around, create a parking permit program to allow temporary parking for things like graduation parties and holiday parties, of if they have another idea or recommendation. Ms. Stromberg stated the Council did discuss this topic at their October 28 meeting and then the City Manager did direct City staff to review it with the Planning Commission and get their opinion. She suggested the Commission have a discussion and receive information from the public. Commissioner Sielaff asked what is the rationale of having no parking from 2 to 6 from November to April? Ms. Stromberg replied, snow removal – it’s a very standard rule that a lot of cities have. Commissioner Sielaff stated the plows are going through at those early morning hours. Ms. Stromberg stated correct, that is typically the best time for the plows to remove the snow, before people are up and needing to use the street to get to work. Terry McClellan stated he is not speaking on behalf of the Commission. He is speaking on behalf of the homeowner and resident. He lives on Brigadoon Place in the Flannery Park neighborhood. Mr. McClellan stated roughly 20 years after he built his house the City of Fridley amended 506.13.6 and as a result it created a special group for RV/motor homes. This represents by his count, 1 percent of the residents of the City of Fridley. The other 99 percent of the residents do not enjoy the same parking privileges that are allowed in Chapter 506. He feels that was a bad decision. It is a bad policy because first of all it creates winners and losers. If you do not happen to like a 50 feet RV in front of your house or nearly in front Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 18 of 28 of your house for 24 hours, you lose. If you get to enjoy the parking privileges, you are a winner. Most importantly the policy ends up pitting neighbor against neighbor over this parking thing that did not exist prior to that amendment that was done long after he built his house there. It also sets precedence for when is the next group of special folks which might be ATV’ers, snowmobilers, car enthusiasts, and even if you are a self-employed contractor who uses a pick-up truck – he should have those same rights. There was no size, no weight, and no location limitations put on this amendment. Mr. McClellan stated it is hard to enforce the Code because there is really no meaningful recourse if it is in fact abused because when do you call the Police? At 24 hours and 1 minute, at 23 hours just in case? He is not sure in fairness to the Police how they are to manage this. In fact you do not even have to be a resident of the City of Fridley to park your motor home in Fridley on a public street. Mr. McClellan stated should the City be in the business of supplying storage for personal property on public roads? It is big picture stuff, is that the City of Fridley’s job? He would argue good policy is fair and it puts all residents in the same boat. Just as the code requirement for outdoor storage, there is one code that everyone needs to live by. A good policy he would argue should improve neighborhoods and enhance property values. Good policy is also easy to enforce and manage. Mr. McClellan stated the City of Fridley by his research is the only city in this area that has a special RV/mobile home provision in its city code. The solution is easy, you rescind the amendment that was done anywhere from 15-18 years ago and that way 100 percent of the City residents would be held to the same parking rules. The bad news is that, if left at status quo, it could get worse. The maximum size of an RV in the State of Minnesota is 75 feet long, 13 ½ feet high, and 8 plus feet wide. That is as wide as a city lot. The Fridley’s minimum lot he believes, is 75 feet. Mr. McClellan stated if the Code is taken to the extreme and he is a little confused even by the way it is written when they say two non-consecutive days, is that Sunday to Saturday, can you have two shots at it? By his math that is 52 days. That could be 7 weeks of parking if you maxed it out. Mr. McClellan stated the good news is that the vast majority of RV owners, those that store their RV’s on their private property, load and unload on their private property which is entirely within their rights the way the Codes are written. Mr. McClellan stated for the record he is one of those people who thinks that we should have one parking Code that is applicable 12 months out of the year, and there is no Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 19 of 28 overnight parking and he thinks there were more cities than what was listed that had provisions for overnight parking. Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. McClellan what is the length of his vehicle that he parks? Mr. McClellan replied, he does not have one. He is one of the losers. Chairperson Kondrick asked, what is the average length of the average vehicle that is stored outside? Mr. McClellan replied, the ones he knows are about 50 feet and they are about 6-8 feet high and 8-feet wide. Chairperson Kondrick replied, okay, 50 feet. He asked Mr. McClellan if his neighbor next door to him had a vehicle that was 40 feet long would he mind his neighbor having it parked in front of his house the whole year. Mr. McClellan replied, if it was parked in front of their house, he probably would not care much. What frustrates him more is, so you have 24 hours, you do your business, and then it sits for all intents and purposes for 20 plus hours during that time, just sitting there. If he had a real frustration that might be it. Commissioner Evanson stated they understand you can have a motor home, a trailer, parked on your property whenever you want. There is no concern there. The concern is a vehicle that is so large that the person cannot park it on their lot. They use it, they are storing it presumably somewhere else, and so when they are unloading things from their home onto the trailer, there has been the provision created within Fridley’s law to say you can park it in the street for a limited period of time to accommodate your ability to load/unload, do your business, and then store it somewhere else. Chairperson Kondrick replied, right. Commissioner Evanson stated and this is a problem for some people. Some people object to the idea there that is a large vehicle parked in the street. Chairperson Kondrick stated he has a neighbor who has a pretty long Winnebago which is parked right up against his garage door. He has to park as close to his garage door as he can because he has to be 15 feet away from the property line. Mr. Hickok stated, it is the curb. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 20 of 28 Chairperson Kondrick stated he cannot meet that requirement. When he loads it up he has to park it as close as he can to his house, opens the door, loads and unloads, and then sometimes he will park the vehicle in the street for a day or two. It is on a street that is heavily walked and used, which can be dangerous. Mr. McClellan stated technically he can park the camper in the street. Chairperson Kondrick stated, yes, he can and it’s dangerous. Mr. Hickok stated to Mr. Kondrick’ s example if it is over 24 hours then it would be a problem. One of the things Mr. McClellan mentioned that might not be easy to understand if you do not have an RV is that it takes time to get the refrigerator going and often with sloped driveways, you need a level surface. Back when the discussion happened, and it was in 2001 when this was discussed, one of the things they heard was that 20 hours that it is sitting there doing nothing it is actually doing something. It is actually sitting level so the refrigerator can get cool as it is plugged in as somebody is getting ready to go. They then load the materials in the cooled refrigerator and they take off. Those are some of the things where if you were not involved in the discussion, you may have not understood why a motorhome, or a camper needs to sit there for that period of time. But the level is the key and parking on the street in front of your home oftentimes is the level spot you get to do that. That was some of the rationale for permitting it at the time. Commissioner Sielaff stated as to the enforcement of this ordinance, he asked whether staff had any data to show how often the City has cited people on this? He can see there is a real problem enforcing the ordinance this way. Unless you just rely on complaints. Mr. Hickok replied, they have data on every type of code enforcement complaint and they do not get complaints on these. This is a rather rare instance where they have a complaint on a situation where it is parked in the street. Sometimes there are circumstances that cause maybe one neighbor to be less tolerant of another neighbor’s camper being there but for the most part, we are in Minnesota, it is a camping state, people have campers and the City does not hear from people. He can probably count on one hand in his now almost 26 years of being here the number of times they have had a complaint about a camper on the street. Commissioner Sielaff stated basically the City does it from a complaint. Mr. Hickok stated yes, and we also have a systematic code enforcement person who is out in the summer. Campers on the street typically have not been an issue. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 21 of 28 Pam Reynolds stated she is going to disagree with the date they believe this ordinance was enacted. Ordinance 1257 which changed this language was in 2009. At that time there was much deliberation regarding the RV. Actually the language that came forward was to make it so you could not have your RV in Fridley anywhere. Part of the discussion back then, and she went back and looked at the minutes of all those meetings, she brought up the point that every licensed vehicle in Fridley can be parked on the City street for up to 24 hours. In 2009 she did not feel it was necessary to make special rules for RV’s because that Code already existed for 24 hours. However, Council felt that they should put some kind of language that would specifically deal with the RV’s. That is when they came up with the 24 hours, twice in a seven-day period. Councilmember Bolkcom brought up the fact that, okay, I am going to load it in front of my house and when I get back from where I have been, I need to unload it again. That was why they put the seven days in there. Part of the issue that was brought forward at that time was because they had a couple of issues where someone came to visit, pulled their RV up, and had their extension code running into the house. They had a visitor there for like five days parked in front of their house. She does not see the need to change this language. She did not see the need to change it then because any licensed vehicle can be on the City street for up to 24 hours except between November 1 and April for snow removal. Ms. Reynolds stated her feeling on the overall parking restriction for the overnight parking of 2 to 6, the Police do not spend a lot of time enforcing that now and parking issues are a police issue, not code enforcement, and she has been told that recently. On her street someone did put reminders on cars that said, remember the winter parking rules are in effect. She thought that was fantastic; however, the next day she picked most of them up blowing down the street. She does not believe the Police Department spends a lot of time doing parking tickets. She thinks the ordinance should be left alone. There was a lot of thought put into Ordinance 1257 in 2009. Chairperson Kondrick asked, what about the RV issue? Ms. Reynolds replied, the RV can park on the street for 24 hours. That is what the Code says, is that not what it says? Mr. Hickok replied, yes, that is correct. Going back 18 years ago is when the unattended vehicle ordinance did pass and that is where they talk about the 24 hours on the street. Also, they talked about the 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. at that time which was Ordinance 1162 and the second reading was in December 2001. Then in 2002 was when they took on the RV issue, when they talked about it being no closer than 15 feet from the street, not the property line. Also where it talks about boats and trailers being in the side or rear yard and they can be on an unimproved surface and so forth. In 2009 the piece about the loading and unloading, 24 hours during a seven-day period was adopted. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 22 of 28 Matthew Brown, 7661 Brigadoon, stated he spoke at the last City Council meeting about that 24-hour, twice a week rule. They bought a travel trailer last year. Before they bought it they looked at the City of Fridley rules to make sure they had what they needed to come and go temporarily to load and unload. They bought the travel-trailer under those pretenses. He has had some troubles with his neighbor about that. The troubles he has had are not because of some of the thing mentioned, like blocking the thoroughfare or children having to walk around a parked vehicle. That is not a problem for him. He is on a cul de sac, he is not blocking mailboxes or driveways. Mr. Brown stated he really likes the rule the way that it is. As to someone mentioning 1 percent of the population having campers, he does not think that figure is correct. Minnesota is an RV state and it is a big commerce for the State, too. The Ice Castle he owns is one of 20,000 made by a small business in Montevideo, Minnesota. They have been in business since 1994. The City of Fridley should support campers and people who buy those products from Minnesota companies. Mr. Brown stated he thinks the rule is fair, 24 hours, two days a week. He wanted to get a feeling for what his neighbors thought and so he walked around the neighborhood and knocked on doors and asked people what they thought about his trailer and if it bothered them, and if this rule should be rescinded. He obtained 30 written signatures and 130 signatures on an on-line petition in favor of keeping the ordinance the way it is. He believes it to be a good reflection of the community and their thoughts on this issue. If the rules get changed and he cannot do this anymore, he will have to sell the trailer and he will not be able to go camping because he cannot get up into his parking spot in the middle of the night in the dark. Commissioner Sielaff asked Mr. Brown, during what months does he use his RV? Mr. Brown replied, he uses it year around. It is an Ice Castle fish house. During the winter it sits up on Mille Lacs. During the summer he uses it for camping. Commissioner Sielaff asked Mr. Brown what months would he be parking it on the street then? Mr. Brown replied, between the months of May and August/September, the camping season. Chairperson Kondrick stated to Mr. Brown, he wants to be able to park his fish house on the street? Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 23 of 28 Mr. Brown replied, it is an RV. Patty Fowler, 1437 Meadowmoor Drive NE, stated she is also an RV owner and supports the regulations as they stand. It is important to know that other than the few hours she is cleaning or putting food in her frig or making the bed, it does need to sit in the street. The refrigerator does take quite a lot of time to chill, so it’s not doing nothing. She believes there is a regulation or a law that says motor homes can only be 45 feet in length. The regulation as it stands regarding RV’s, trailers, boats and whatever is actually more restrictive. It is not something special for a select group of people. Her neighbor parks on the street every day of the week other than in the winter because they have three or four high school kids. She gets to do it twice in a seven-day period. Ms. Fowler stated there are multiple cars that are parked on the street that are probably longer than her 26-foot motor home. It is not an issue of length or duration if you compare it to multiple vehicles vs. one motor home. Also, within a three-block area she knows of six people who have motor homes. All the way from 40 something feet to her little 26-footer, nobody has ever complained. They are on private property or go away to a storage unit when not in use and then it is here to be washed or to food in it, and then it’s gone again. Commissioner Sielaff asked, does the 2 to 6 a.m. from November 1 to April 1 effectively rule out the parking of RV’s for a 24-hour period? Ms. Stromberg replied, yes, in the winter. Jim Hammerbeck, 549 Bennett Drive NE, stated they bought their house in 2010. He owns a boat and a fifth wheel. He went around and asked all the neighbors what do they think of this, if he parks it here. They did not mind at all. Then he went to the City Planner and found out what he needed to know to park on their property. He was told he could get a curb cut and make his driveway wider if he wanted. He asked if he just built a pad alongside the driveway and was told that was ok. He asked what about his boat? He was told he can park that in his back yard provided it is on a pad. He has done that. He had no problem with anybody in the neighborhood. There are units over there who have all done the same thing. They built pads along their house, extended their driveways. Nobody has complained about anything. Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. Hammerbeck if he thinks that is a good idea? Mr. Hammerbeck replied, is a good idea. He had his house rewired to make a 30-amp connection for his camper to park alongside the house. He hooks it up there so his refrigerator and everything else can get ready to go. He hooks it up the night before he Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 24 of 28 is going to use it and then parks it on the street, so he does not have to do it at 5 o’clock in the morning. Roger Stene, 870 Pandora Drive, stated he has lived in Fridley well over 60 years and has seen this issue evolve. He has owned two pick-up campers and he did not know how many trailers. He has a lot of trouble with his neighbors because he has had them. Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. Stene why neighbors complained? Mr. Stene replied, they do not like looking at it; and he has had really nice looking units. If you are going to have them on the property they should be a certain vintage. He has always had them off the street. He thinks anyone who has a trailer or motor home should have special use permit to park it on the property, they should pay an annual fee. He had to get a special use permit to put the car in the garage. He was going to move to New Brighton in 1971 or 1972 but he didn’t because pick-up trailers had to be inside garages. That is their code over there. If someone can afford one of these vehicles, they should be able to store it in a storage facility. Chairperson Kondrick asked Mr. Stene whether he thinks they should leave the ordinance the way it is? Mr. Stene replied, no. He thinks there should be no street parking. Mr. Stene stated he’s tired of looking at the trailers that are so big parked up in the neighborhoods. There is the 15-foot rule, so some people park them sideways so they can concur with the law and they are hooked up and everything for days. Also, they park on the street and park backwards so they are not parked with the traffic. So when you are coming down the road there are no taillights, reflectors, there. They need to tighten up the rules. There are places you can go with these motor homes, the big travel trailers, you pull in. Drop them off, they clean them for you, fill it up with gas and propane when you want to use it. You call ahead, they have it all hooked up, you just drive in there, park your car, and go down the road. That is how it should be. Mr. Stene stated as to the trailers they use for snowmobiles and that, there are a lot of sharp objects on them, they should either be fenced in or have a cover on them. Also, they should park those big rigs in a storage facility, not on the property, and they should not be parked in front of the house more than two hours. Richard Young, 5695 Quincy Street NE, stated he has lived in Fridley for 39 years and has had an RV of some kind parked in his side lot or in his driveway for all of that period of Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 25 of 28 time. There have been so many terms thrown around here, he wondered how many people here know what is an RV or how many classes of motor home there are. Mr. Young stated as to the Ice Castle fish house, the last 17 years he has volunteered in Minnesota state parks. Of those 17 years 13 of them he has predominantly been at Bemidji State Park. He would say of the 96 campsites there on any weekend at least 5 of the sites are occupied by fish houses because they have now put out what is called a Fish House RV addition. They have everything in it that a normal RV has. To be classified as an RV you typically have to have cooking and bathroom facilities. If your travel trailer/motor home has that, unless they change the tax code, you are able to deduct all of the interest paid on that loan just like you have been able to do on a home loan. It is considered to be a second home. Mr. Young stated he speaks in favor of the ordinance as it currently stands. The only time his RV is in the street is when he comes home to wash it. It is in the street for maybe one hour, he does see a problem. If it is rescinded, they have people here who live in apartments and so where do they store their trailer? They store it at a rental facility, and those are not cheap. If they are going to go camping, they cannot bring it home as there is no room so they might park it on the street. So you are eliminating the apartment owners from owning a camper of any kind. If anything should be done with the ordinance, they should more clearly identify what is considered a recreational vehicle. Mr. Young stated he would like the parking permit stipulation be considered seriously because he has seen this down by the old City Hall. Once or twice a year for about a three or four-day period it was alluded to by somebody else here about somebody running an extension cord. You have out-of-town visitors who are traveling the country, and they come to visit you. You cannot typically get into the closest park, Bunker Park. The next closest one is William O’Brian State Park in Scandia. Just for consideration, if somebody came to visit, they could get a three-day permit to park if they are from out of state. Maybe they could get a permit twice a year for that three-day thing if they are coming to visit from out of town. He has not seen campers being a big issue in the City of Fridley. As far as the 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. ordinance, he has seen cars parked in his neighborhood that have been plowed around and two days later they are still sitting there. Never been a ticket on the car. If they have an ordinance they need one that is going to be enforced. Debra Patchin, 280 Rice Creek Boulevard, stated she supports the ordinance as it is. It is not a haves against the have nots and it does not pit people who have trailers against those who do not. She also likes the idea about getting a one or two time a year permit for guests. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 26 of 28 Amber Hendrickson, 1538 Rice Creek Road, stated she is also in favor of keeping the wording in the laws. They cannot fit a camper in their driveway, and they want to obey the laws. Her husband gets done with work, he goes and gets the camper from storage, parks it in front of their house, she plugs in the refrigerator, they fill up the water tank, they load it up. When they get back they need the 24 hours again to clean everything, etc. She would think Fridley would want to support families doing fun things with their kids. Steve Warnke, 1580 Rice Creek Road NE, stated he actually prefers when the camper is parked on the street on a Friday or Thursday night. It may be a hinderance when he is walking the dog somewhat. He has to shift and turn his head to look for traffic which is the wise thing to do. It does not affect him walking his dog or his kids. He has kids from 7, 4, and 18 months. He has never had an issue. He has a camper which he leaves in his driveway and no one has complained about it. He would also be in favor of the three-day permit. Even make it a week. When he lived in Maple Grove, as long as you called into the city and said, you are going to have a black truck parked out of truck for seven days, it is an out-of-town relative, they just marked it and they knew in case something happened. Jim Golden, 6701 Overton Drive, stated he is in favor of leaving the language the way it is and possibly adding a permit for someone staying for three days. They camped for years and years and there is no better way for a family to grow up then be spending some time doing that. Mr. Stene asked as to commercial vehicles parked in the neighborhood, is there a limit? For a self-employed business, how many parked commercial vehicles can they have in the street, on the driveway, and on the side yard? Commissioner Kondrick advised Mr. Stene he should contact the City and have them come out and take a look. Commissioner Hansen stated he agrees with what people are saying. He does not see anything wrong with the way the ordinance is written and there are perfectly logical reasons why one might want to park for 24 hours to unload and the refrigerator circumstance all makes sense. Even a three-day permit is something the Council should consider as well. If the Council were to change something here, obviously a lot of people in the City are going to be very upset. Also, it states in the memo that a small number of complaints does not typically generate an ordinance revision, and that is what they are dealing with here. He has lived in Fridley for 43 years in three different locations, and he has never seen this as a problem. Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 27 of 28 Commissioner Evanson stated this ordinance is making it more restrictive for RV’s than any other vehicle. Any vehicle can be parked for up to a 24-hour period during certain times of the year. It sounds like to avoid the situation of an eyesore being present, the City has said let’s just limit it to a 24-hour period within a seven-day period. It seems like any special carving out if you will is made to make it more restrictive for this class of vehicles rather than creating a special accommodation. Is he understanding this correct? Commissioner Hansen stated, yes, and also the points that have been made about enforcement are pretty valid as well. If they are going to make things more restrictive, more enforcement will need to happen. He does not think the police are going to do anymore about it. Commissioner Oquist stated they might have to define what a vehicle is. They have to define a vehicle as an RV, an Ice Castle. What is a vehicle? He is in favor of leaving the ordinance as it is with the exception of adding a three-day permit if that seems to be a reasonable one. Also, maybe define what an RV is. He is not sure an Ice Castle is an RV. Commissioner Evanson stated he supports the idea of adding a permitting process or some sort of an exception to allow for visitors. He recalled an elderly couple who sold their home and bought a travel trailer so they could drive around the country visiting their children who lived everywhere. It would be a nice accommodation for people who have made that life choice as well. Commissioner Sielaff stated he agrees with Commissioner Oquist they have to have some definition about what they are talking about here. Mr. Hickok stated to that point about the definition, the City does in Chapter 506 define quite well what a travel trailer is and the different distinctions of the vehicles they are talking about. Also, the State as they license vehicles makes a distinction between your typical pick-up truck and something used for commercial purposes and/or something that is used as an RV. They have a couple different levels of government definitions. One is through the licensing provisions. Another one is through the City ordinance. Commissioner Heintz stated it does not have the weights of RV’s. Mr. Hickok replied, and maybe it should. Back when it was contemplated he does not know if the weight of an RV played into the discussion at all. Chairperson Kondrick asked whether the statute includes all the different categories. Is the City being specific enough? Fridley Planning Commission Meeting November 20, 2019 Page 28 of 28 Mr. Hickok replied, the City does make a distinction from the park trailer. There are some that do not leave the campground and are seasonal and are not meant to be brought back and forth. They are defined in the ordinance. Motor homes is defined as is travel trailers. He may be presumptuous, and he is going to speculate a bit, he does not think they are going to see an appetite for saying that a Class A motor home is not acceptable, but a Class B motor home is. Motor homes go up to 45 feet in length. He thinks the length given earlier talks about the combination of things you can pull on the highway. That is the dimension that MnDOT has determined would be okay. Between the State’s licensing of vehicles that has been mentioned here and the City’s definitions of what these different vehicles are, he thinks the City has hit it pretty well. Commissioner Heintz stated he would like it considered a parking permit to be issued for on-street parking for graduation parties, reunions, holiday parties. He has had experience with this, when 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. parking regulation was adopted. He had kids in college, and he had several parking tickets he had to pay. Commissioner Oquist stated he’d consider a three-day permit. Keep in mind there may be a cost involved. MOTION by Chairperson Oquist to keep the ordinance as is, with a consideration of a three-day parking permit. Seconded by Commissioner Heintz. UPON A VOICE VOTE, WITH CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK, COMMISSIONERS HEINTZ SIELAFF, HANSEN, OQUIST, AND EVANSON VOTING AYE, AND COMMISSINER MCCLELLAN VOTING NAY, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED ON A 6 TO 1 VOTE. ADJOURN: UPON A VOICE VOTE, ALL VOTING AYE, CHAIRPERSON KONDRICK DECLARED THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AND THE MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:10 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Denise M. Johnson Recording Secretary